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Wickett Fan
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 64
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Gnomadd wrote: |
What's up Wickett Fan, I can feel where you come from. In school, a few of my more african centered hommies created a B-B-Bushes type game where if the N word was said you could get pasted in yourn chest, arm, back of neck, seen? For years after, it never passed my lips. That's thinking with my ego, my emotions. But let me ask, logically, what's the difference in having the lable "Negro" impossed upon you as opposed to having the word "Nigger" impossed on you?
P.S.- Neither term tells you what you are, but what you aren't |
Gnomadd;
Sorry to be away for so long. I had to meditate for a while on the explanation V_God gave me in the other "nigger" thread. I raised the "negro" alternative because:
1. It does mean the same thing as "nigger" but is not an expletive.
2. Neeely Fuller defines it the same way as "nigger".
I agree with you that they are both impossed on us... I am not enamored with "negro" either. But if I had to redefine a term for code purposes, I would choose negro over "nigger" because I would have to do less "heavy-lifting" to overcome the intense, distracting emotion and incorrect imagery the term invokes.
I prefer the term VOR over "negro" or "nigger". For the same reason I prefer to use the term "enslaved" over "slaves" to describe our immediate forbearers. Enslaved focuses thought on the creators of their victimized condition rather than just their condition. It is for that reason, I am less resistant to characterizing myself as "niggerized" than "a nigger".
As I understand V_God, the word "nigger" [under code and redefined] accurately describes our condition. I understand his and Josh's choice to use the term. And if I hear it, that is how I will let any person I am addressing know how I define it. Thus, they are forced to think about it differently should they still choose to use it.
Tactically, I think the word has too much baggage to be useful outside this forum (my opinion). Those much smarter [code] than us don't use this approach.
Those against abortion? "Pro-Life" (not anti-choice as their opponents call them)
Those for abortion? "Pro-choice" ... 'eh?
In the end, I think we have more to gain by coming up with terms of our own creation. Terms that we can define as we choose that both describe our condition AND revel truth.
| Josh wrote: |
Ive got to ask this question because I think it will clear up a lot of confusion.
Ive asked it once, but it was not answered.
Wickett fan,
are you a nigger? |
Josh;
I am a VOR.
As a VOR, I have been "niggerized" but I am not a nigger. I will only refer to myself as "niggerized" in this forum b/c you understand and code what that means.
Look, I am not going to refer to myself as a "fucker" in mixed company even though I do have sex. An expletive is still an expletive.
_________________
Any use of the word, "Nigger(s)" translates into the following statement: "Consciously or subconsciously, I am helping to maintain the local, national, global system of Racism (White Supremacy)". ~ Dr. Francis C. Welsing |
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Josh
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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WF wrote:
| Quote: |
| As a VOR, I have been "niggerized" but I am not a nigger |
So following the logic, can a person be "imprisoned" without being a "prisoner"?
Josh |
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Wickett Fan
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 64
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 9:33 am Post subject: Re: |
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| Josh wrote: |
WF wrote:
| Quote: |
| As a VOR, I have been "niggerized" but I am not a nigger |
So following the logic, can a person be "imprisoned" without being a "prisoner"?
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Very elligant answer, Josh.
I would say no, someone can't be "imprisoned" w/o being a "prisoner". However, if you describe your position as being "imprisoned" you focus attention on both on your condition and the creator of your condition. Using the Logic, which is strategy is better to revel the full truth?
Josh, I understand why you use it here because you can codify and redefine the word "nigger" to minimize confusion and misunderstanding. From what I have been reading, V_God would be careful to redefine the word during person to person experimentation. I understand this. I find that acceptable (though I think it is an inefficient use of effort).
What I really have a problem with was illustrated in a recent experiment I read here.
It's the one where the Jehovias Witness came up to the code person to "save their soul". The code persons response was to say something to the effect like this, "So if I get save, does that mean I won't have to be a nigger anymore?" The Jeh. Wit. was described as shocked and turned away immediately.
Now, if the intent was to shoo away a pesky JW, I have no problem with that. However, the code person was selling this interaction as "code in action". I see a problem with this approach and I hope you do too.
You have insisted when one interacts with suspected R/WS in experimentation we should always pick out their their critical terms, code them, and feed the sentence back to them, get their agreement, then proceed. This way, we are speaking the same language.
The code person and the JW above were not speaking the same language. He was using "nigger" encoded, she was reading it as a highly insulting epiphet. It was his responsability , not hers, to make certain the same language is being spoken.
We are left to wonder what her reaction would have been if he had said,"If I accept your God, would I at last no longer be a VOR"? She may have stopped for a moment and thought about it.
I see no reason this explitive should be "baptized" and brought into experiments. In any true experiment, you want to control all variables. If you don't all "data" you gather is sustect.
_________________
Any use of the word, "Nigger(s)" translates into the following statement: "Consciously or subconsciously, I am helping to maintain the local, national, global system of Racism (White Supremacy)". ~ Dr. Francis C. Welsing |
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Edward Williams
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: |
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If non-white people refuse to use words the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) will make sure those words get a lot of attention. I have seen programs on CNN talking about the use of "The N Word" versus the word "nigger" and the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) will have the non-white people argue and fight with each other over which term should be used and no non-white person came up with either term.
This is the madness that goes on daily. All words should be examined and redefined so that when they are used they reveal truth in a manner that justice is promoted...even the word nigger. So when the word comes up in a conversation the person attempting to use counter-racist codification can turn that word into a word that reveals truth in a manner that justice is promoted. The white people who practice racism (white supremacy) use both truth and they use falsehood in a manner that promotes non-justice.
Now I could be incorrect but I say you can only produce non-justice by using falshood. I say that, primarily, the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) use falsehood to produce non-justice...this is racist logic. Counter-racist logic must then be to use truth in a manner that justice is promoted. Not just reveal truth...because the racists (white supremacists) use truth and falsehood to promote non-justice...they only promote non-justice.
The use of all words in the revelation of truth in a manner that promotes justice and correctness is essential in replacing racism (white supremacy) with justice and all words should be tested.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Wickett Fan
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 64
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Edward Williams wrote: |
| If non-white people refuse to use words the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) will make sure those words get a lot of attention. I have seen programs on CNN talking about the use of "The N Word" versus the word "nigger" and the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) will have the non-white people argue and fight with each other over which term should be used and no non-white person came up with either term. |
Up till now, those few R/WS who use "nigger" openly, are still universally regarded as racists. That's a good thing b/c w/o this taboo, unconstitutional racist intent behind the actions of R/WS become more diffucult to prove in court or on the job. When we start losing court cases against R/WS who call us "niggars" on the job, when we can no longer convince shool boards to remove R/WS from our classrooms who call our children "little niggars" and when police who beat us up can no longer be fired or punished even when caught on audio calling us "niggars"... Then you will realize the folly of contributing to the removal of this taboo. By then, it will be too late.
| Edward Williams wrote: |
| All words should be examined and redefined so that when they are used they reveal truth in a manner that justice is promoted...even the word nigger. So when the word comes up in a conversation the person attempting to use counter-racist codification can turn that word into a word that reveals truth in a manner that injustice is prtomoted. The white people who practice racism (white supremacy) use both truth and they use falsehood in a manner that promotes non-justice. |
This is correct! This is defensive redefinition of the tern "nigger" using code. This is very appropriate when this term is used by R/WS to attack us IMHO. Contrarily, the careless use of the "nigger" term by non-white people and its constant, ill advised use by code speakers ...all help remove the taboo of its use by R/WS ensuring the "nigger" term will be used to attack us more and more.
Do we have the power to redefine a term like "nigger" and have it be accepted by the population of white people? If not, we are lying to ourselves if we think initiating the use of "nigger" to white or non-white people unaware of the code will do us any good.
When a Denny's manager calls you a "nigger" you can defend yourself during the confrontation by defining the term for her using code... Then, sue the bitch! You can do that only b/c calling someone a "nigger" is still widely regarded as a "racist" taboo.
| Edward Williams wrote: |
| Now I could be incorrect but I say you can only produce non-justice by using falshood. I say that, primarily, the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) use falsehood to produce non-justice...this is racist logic. Counter-racist logic must then be to use truth in a manner that justice is promoted. Not just reveal truth...because the racists (white supremacists) use truth and falsehood to promote non-justice...they only promote non-justice. |
V_Dod, do you think that use of "nigger" the code talker used in the above experiment (Jehovias Witness) was effective in reveling truth or promoting justice? Please answer this important question.
_________________
Any use of the word, "Nigger(s)" translates into the following statement: "Consciously or subconsciously, I am helping to maintain the local, national, global system of Racism (White Supremacy)". ~ Dr. Francis C. Welsing |
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Dan Freeman
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 652
Location: Wherever I'm sent.
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Wickett Fan wrote: |
| Edward Williams wrote: |
| If non-white people refuse to use words the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) will make sure those words get a lot of attention. I have seen programs on CNN talking about the use of "The N Word" versus the word "nigger" and the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) will have the non-white people argue and fight with each other over which term should be used and no non-white person came up with either term. |
Up till now, those few R/WS who use "nigger" openly, are still universally regarded as racists. That's a good thing b/c w/o this taboo, unconstitutional racist intent behind the actions of R/WS become more diffucult to prove in court or on the job. When we start losing court cases against R/WS who call us "niggars" on the job, when we can no longer convince shool boards to remove R/WS from our classrooms who call our children "little niggars" and when police who beat us up can no longer be fired or punished even when caught on audio calling us "niggars"... Then you will realize the folly of contributing to the removal of this taboo. By then, it will be too late.
| Edward Williams wrote: |
| All words should be examined and redefined so that when they are used they reveal truth in a manner that justice is promoted...even the word nigger. So when the word comes up in a conversation the person attempting to use counter-racist codification can turn that word into a word that reveals truth in a manner that injustice is prtomoted. The white people who practice racism (white supremacy) use both truth and they use falsehood in a manner that promotes non-justice. |
This is correct! This is defensive redefinition of the tern "nigger" using code. This is very appropriate when this term is used by R/WS to attack us IMHO. Contrarily, the careless use of the "nigger" term by non-white people and its constant, ill advised use by code speakers ...all help remove the taboo of its use by R/WS ensuring the "nigger" term will be used to attack us more and more.
Do we have the power to redefine a term like "nigger" and have it be accepted by the population of white people? If not, we are lying to ourselves if we think initiating the use of "nigger" to white or non-white people unaware of the code will do us any good.
When a Denny's manager calls you a "nigger" you can defend yourself during the confrontation by defining the term for her using code... Then, sue the bitch! You can do that only b/c calling someone a "nigger" is still widely regarded as a "racist" taboo.
| Edward Williams wrote: |
| Now I could be incorrect but I say you can only produce non-justice by using falshood. I say that, primarily, the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) use falsehood to produce non-justice...this is racist logic. Counter-racist logic must then be to use truth in a manner that justice is promoted. Not just reveal truth...because the racists (white supremacists) use truth and falsehood to promote non-justice...they only promote non-justice. |
V_Dod, do you think that use of "nigger" the code talker used in the above experiment (Jehovias Witness) was effective in reveling truth or promoting justice? Please answer this important question. |
Wicket Fan,
Are you a white person?
Winston
_________________
Understanding is honoring the truth beneath the surface.
Last edited by Dan Freeman on Sun May 08, 2005 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Edward Williams
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3284
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Wickett Fan wrote: |
| Edward Williams wrote: |
| Now I could be incorrect but I say you can only produce non-justice by using falshood. I say that, primarily, the white people who practice racism (white supremacy) use falsehood to produce non-justice...this is racist logic. Counter-racist logic must then be to use truth in a manner that justice is promoted. Not just reveal truth...because the racists (white supremacists) use truth and falsehood to promote non-justice...they only promote non-justice. |
V_Dod, do you think that use of "nigger" the code talker used in the above experiment (Jehovias Witness) was effective in reveling truth or promoting justice? Please answer this important question. |
I don't know. Try running the experiment and find out. Non-white people do a lot of talking about what other non-white people say and/or do. Run the experiment and find out. You can post your findings on this site in the appropriate location.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Edward Williams
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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After running this experiment (NIGGER - I AM ONE) I have concluded that the best time to use the word nigger is to give the definition of the word nigger if someone else asks you for the definition of the word nigger and/or explain, in detail, what it means to be a nigger.
Those are the only times that the use of the word nigger has the greatest impact against the SYSTEM of racism (white supremacy).
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Wickett Fan
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 64
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Here are your questions:
1. Is wallowing in the wrechedness of the racist prejoritive "nigger" contributing to the fight against RWS or strengtening white supremists ability to stigmatize non-white peoples of predominantly African decent?
2. Since the term is divisive and offensive to a large majority of non-white people and has very limited appeal to a VERY limited group of non-white people...and RWS is universal ...would it not be logical to use more universal terms to describe our condition or our selves? Especially terms that do not demean us and contribute to the acceptance of the use of "nigger" as a tool white supremists (ala Richards, Imus etc) can once again feel free to assault us with?
_________________
Any use of the word, "Nigger(s)" translates into the following statement: "Consciously or subconsciously, I am helping to maintain the local, national, global system of Racism (White Supremacy)". ~ Dr. Francis C. Welsing |
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Edward Williams
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3284
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Wickett Fan wrote: |
Here are your questions:
1. Is wallowing in the wrechedness of the racist prejoritive "nigger" contributing to the fight against RWS or strengtening white supremists ability to stigmatize non-white peoples of predominantly African decent? |
I don't know.
| Wickett Fan wrote: |
| 2. Since the term is divisive and offensive to a large majority of non-white people and has very limited appeal to a VERY limited group of non-white people...and RWS is universal ...would it not be logical to use more universal terms to describe our condition or our selves? Especially terms that do not demean us and contribute to the acceptance of the use of \\\"nigger\\\" as a tool white supremists (ala Richards, Imus etc) can once again feel free to assault us with? |
If I do not use a word there is no guarantee that a racist (white supremacist) will also not use the same word.
Post a counter-racism experiment, run the counter-racism experiment, post the data to the counter-racism experiment that you run. Easy as 1-2-3. Keep the emotional back-and-forth for a discussion board.
Please read the FAQ.
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Edward Williams
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003
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Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Bhrasta wrote: |
| Is a racial slur supposed to be an improvement over a word that has held negative connotations? |
Did you really have to post all of that in order to ask a question?
What is a racial slur and what is a negative connotation?
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Edward Williams
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003
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Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: Re: |
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| Bhrasta wrote: |
Hello All,
Thank you for your response Mr. Williams, I do have a tendency to elaborate both in speech and writing about any topic that I find interesting. I would try to minimise my contributions.
As to your question, I was not able to provide workable definitions for either racial slur or a word with a negative connotation. I will try to redefine them so that they work for me. As soon as I'm through I'll post the results.
Thank you. |
Oh no Sir...it was not my intention to get you to minimize your contributions only to get you to think about using the least amount of words to have the greatest impact.
There is a counter-racism science experiment posted inthe Counter-Racism Science Project forum that you may be able to use to help you to find the best definitions. It is called The Best Word To Use.
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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