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Dan Freeman
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 652
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 Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:56 am Post subject: Counter-Racist Language is about Fast-Forwarding |
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The Political Palace Discussion Board. Thread Title: Does Racsim = White Supremacy
The Political Palace Discussion Board. Thread Title: Winston
As a Counter-Racist Strategy/Technique:
I suspect the best information a non white person can get from a White person in an exchange of views about White Supremacy is constructive suggestions on how to Replace White Supremacy with Justice.
I also suspect that the best way to go about an exchange on White Supremacy is to use the so-called "socratic method" of questions and answers.
By this, you may prevent the exchange from becoming too unfocused since it is likely that the more truth is revealed about What White Supremacy is and HOW it works, White people will become offended to the point of becoming defensive, and non-white people will become embarassed.
I sometimes use this as a 'gauge' to measure whether or not the conversation is headed in a constructive direction.
As far as I am concerned, anything short of that is a waste of time and energy.
But I could be incorrect because I'm still learning.
Winston Wolfe.
_________________
Understanding is honoring the truth beneath the surface.
Last edited by Dan Freeman on Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Josh
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Yes, when it comes to counter racism language, you definately want to reduce your "labor costs".
Two tests to determine if you are doing this are:
1. In a discussion, Your responses should be shorter than its preceeding statements.
2. Your responses should consist of questions.
Josh |
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Josh
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Its interesting that people assumed you were a White person.
I have had this experience too. I think the phenomenon is that using logic, asking questions and the scientific method is something White people do.
Making statements is something Black people do.
I have been kick out of many discussion boards because the non white people thought I was a White person.
The reason White people don't make this mistake is because they follow the logic of what I am asking and can see it is designed to reveal truth about the system of racism White supremacy.
That is not the function of a White person in a system of racism White supremacy.
And they know it.
Ergo they can tell Im not a White person based on the effect of the questions I am asking.
They follow the logic, and not the person.
Niggers get caught up on the person.
Don't be a nigger, follow the logic.
Josh |
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Edward Williams
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3368
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Josh wrote: |
| Its interesting that people assumed you were a White person. |
Most non-white people naturally suspect people they perceive as being white (because usually non-white people don't ask if a person is a white person) as doing something against them. Most non-white people are suspect of white people and have reason to be according to the evidence.
But...most non-white people don't suspect white people of being white supremacists (racists)...that is a difficult concept for non-white people to wrap our minds around becuase it means we have to admit we have been outsmarted.
| Josh wrote: |
I have had this experience too. I think the phenomenon is that using logic, asking questions and the scientific method is something White people do.
Making statements is something Black people do.
I have been kick out of many discussion boards because the non white people thought I was a White person.
The reason White people don't make this mistake is because they follow the logic of what I am asking and can see it is designed to reveal truth about the system of racism White supremacy.
That is not the function of a White person in a system of racism White supremacy.
And they know it. |
Exactly...I have experienced this as well. I have suspected many times that when a white person can't visually see me, as in posting to message boards, they used to be curious to find out if I am a white person. By me asking them outright if they are a white person the white people move from understanding that I am not a white person to discrediting me in front of all the other non-white people.
| Josh wrote: |
Ergo they can tell Im not a White person based on the effect of the questions I am asking.
They follow the logic, and not the person.
Niggers get caught up on the person.
Don't be a nigger, follow the logic.
Josh |
Guess I shoulda finished reading the post. Looks like we ended up in the same place.
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Wickett Fan
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 64
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:09 am Post subject: |
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When you guys conduct experiments in other forums, please remember to copy and paste the disussions here to preserve to them as well as the links. Counter racism discussions tend to be quickly deleted.
~Thanks!
_________________
Any use of the word, "Nigger(s)" translates into the following statement: "Consciously or subconsciously, I am helping to maintain the local, national, global system of Racism (White Supremacy)". ~ Dr. Francis C. Welsing |
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Dan Freeman
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 652
Location: Wherever I'm sent.
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: |
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| Wickett Fan wrote: |
When you guys conduct experiments in other forums, please remember to copy and paste the disussions here to preserve to them as well as the links. Counter racism discussions tend to be quickly deleted.
~Thanks! |
Here is a copy of The Thread from The Davey D Political Palace.
Winston
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does Racsim = White Supremacy
Author
Comment
Mr Winston
Brand Nubian
(12/28/04 3:54 pm)
Does Racism = White Supremacy?
If people classified as non-white are the victims of mistreatment on the basis of Color, should people classified as non-white be suspected of practicing White Supremacy?
Does a person classified as non-white have the ability to practice White Supremacy?
Does a person classified as White have the ability to practice White Supremacy?
Are all people classified as White, White Supremacists?
Mr. Winston
Manning99
Grand Master OG
(12/28/04 6:02 pm)
Re: Does Racism = White Supremacy?
| Quote: |
Quote:
Does Racism = White Supremacy? |
Answer to Title:
Institutional Racism equals white supremacy so long as the dominant group is white. Racism is defined as a system of advantages and disadvantages based on race.
Racism isn't just the quickie and convenient definition of using racial slurs, individual acts of meanness geared towards members of another race, denying Blacks jobs or entry into businesses, or feeling superior to others. A system of advantages based on race is a more all-encompassing definition.
| Quote: |
| If people classified as non-white are the victims of mistreatment on the basis of Color, should people classified as non-white be suspected of practicing White Supremacy? |
| Quote: |
Quote:
Does a person classified as non-white have the ability to practice White Supremacy? |
Answer to first two questions below:
If non-whites are manumitted to viewing the world through the eyes of the oppressor and work against group self-interest of their own but in favor of conservative individualism, then in essence they are practicing white supremacy.
If you value the standards, ideals, role models of others more than your own because the media is the tool to manipulate and control the perceptions of the general public you are practicing white supremacy--thus reaffirming white handiwork.
Today there is the notion that if you go to school with white students or if they start going to school with you, it makes things all the better--no way.
| Quote: |
Quote:
Does a person classified as White have the ability to practice White Supremacy? |
Yes they do, whether consciously or unconsciously. All white people benefit from white supremacy in place whether racist or not. If whites stay silent when they know that there are systemic practices in place that hurt Blacks is practicing WS.
Not knowing of the systemic practices works for the benefit of WS.
Blacks were miseducated, but so were whites because many have never stopped to question the practices and existing knowledge written by other whites.
White privilege allows whites to not have to question or identify their wrongdoings to their advantages.
| Quote: |
Quote:
Are all people classified as White, White Supremacists? |
No they are not, but all whites benefit from it whether racist or not.
Mr Winston
Brand Nubian
(12/28/04 7:53 pm)
Re: Does Racism = White Supremacy?
| Quote: |
Manning99,
Quote:
Institutional Racism equals white supremacy so long as the dominant group is white. Racism is defined as a system of advantages and disadvantages based on race. |
One defintion for Racsim that I use is: The Mistreatment of people on the basis of Color. What is "Institutional Racsim"?
| Quote: |
Quote:
If non-whites are manumitted to viewing the world through the eyes of the oppressor and work against group self-interest of their own but in favor of conservative individualism, then in essence they are practicing white supremacy. If you value the standards, ideals, role models of others more than your own because the media is the tool to manipulate and control the perceptions of the general public you are practicing white supremacy--thus reaffirming white handiwork.
Today there is the notion that if you go to school with white students or if they start going to school with you, it makes things all the better--no way. |
By this do you mean that non-white people can practice white-supremacy?
In an answer to the question: Does a person classified as White have the ability to practice White Supremacy?
You stated:
| Quote: |
Quote:
Yes they do, whether consciously or unconsciously. All white people benefit from white supremacy in place whether racist or not. If whites stay silent when they know that there are systemic practices in place that hurt Blacks is practicing WS.
Not knowing of the systemic practices works for the benefit of WS.
Blacks were miseducated, but so were whites because many have never stopped to question the practices and existing knowledge written by other whites.
White privilege allows whites to not have to question or identify their wrongdoings to their advantages. |
If people classified as white give other people classified as white, "white privileges" isn't that White Supremacy?
In answer to the question: Are all people classified as White, White Supremacists?
You stated:
| Quote: |
Quote:
No they are not, but all whites benefit from it whether racist or not. |
What mechanism to you use to determine which person classifed as white IS or IS NOT a White Supremacist?
Finally,
Are you a White person?
Winston
Edited by: Mr Winston at: 12/29/04 12:18 am
Nmaginate
Grand Emperor Supreme
(12/28/04 10:24 pm)
Re: Does Racism = White Supremacy?
| Quote: |
| "...do you mean that non-white people can practice white-supremacy?" |
Something is wrong with your phraseology...
"Non-Whites" can acquiesce to and act, unwittingly or voluntarily, in ways that support White Supremacy.
What mechanism do you use to determine which person classifed as white IS or IS NOT a White Supremacist?
First, Equivocating and pretending that White Supremacy is somehow synonomous with or somehow mostly practice by those called "white supremacists" is nothing but a childish attempt to confuse two totally different concepts. Reading Comprehension and knowledge is free. You can get an understanding at no cost and without explanation.
If you can phrase the questions... then you can deduce the answers.
Now, to your question... the mechanism is simple.
But still a distinction must be made. White supremacists beliefs typified by groups like the KKK, etc. amounts to something different, conceptually, than someone who actively supports America's White Supremacy system that confers privilege on the bases of White skin and power in order to maintain White hegemonic rule.
No such beliefs in say... biological "inferiority/superiority" are necessary for someone White to think, believe and act in ways that they knowingly understand to be for the maintenance of White overpredominant rule and domination in the US.
(Note: I don't work under presumption that people... White people are "ignorant". People know, at least intuitively, what's in their selfish-interest and in the selfish mindset can consciously perceive threats to maintaining what they selfishly believe they have a "right" to and consciously proceed to defend things that they would otherwise believe to be indefensible, morally or otherwise. It's a question of perceived interest and perceived loss.)
What separates the White Supremacists (since you insist) - those who support the system of White Supremacy... not to be confused with the David Dukes - from Whites who cannot be classified as White Supremacists is the mindset. Do they or do they not support the system of White Supremacy. Do they or do they not support "radical change within the structure of American society".
Edited by: Nmaginate at: 12/28/04 10:30 pm
Mr Winston
Brand Nubian
(12/28/04 10:55 pm)
Re: Does Racism = White Supremacy?
nmaginate,
In response to the question:
"...do you mean that non-white people can practice white-supremacy?"
You Stated:
| Quote: |
Quote:
"Non-Whites" can acquiesce to and act, unwittingly or voluntarily, in ways that support White Supremacy |
Does this mean that non-white people can practice White Supremacy?
In response to the question:
What mechanism do you use to determine which person classifed as white IS or IS NOT a White Supremacist?
You Stated:
| Quote: |
Quote:
First, Equivocating and pretending that White Supremacy is somehow synonomous with or somehow mostly practice by those called "white supremacists" is nothing but a childish attempt to confuse two totally different concepts. Reading Comprehension and knowledge is free. You can get an understanding at no cost and without explanation.
If you can phrase the questions... then you can deduce the answers.
Now, to your question... the mechanism is simple.
But still a distinction must be made. White supremacists beliefs typified by groups like the KKK, etc. amounts to something different, conceptually, than someone who actively supports America's White Supremacy system that confers privilege on the bases of White skin and power in order to maintain White hegemonic rule.
No such beliefs in say... biological "inferiority/superiority" are necessary for someone White to think, believe and act in ways that they knowingly understand to be for the maintenance of White overpredominant rule and domination in the US.
(Note: I don't work under presumption that people... White people are "ignorant". People know, at least intuitively, what's in their selfish-interest and in the selfish mindset can consciously perceive threats to maintaining what they selfishly believe they have a "right" to and consciously proceed to defend things that they would otherwise believe to be indefensible, morally or otherwise. It's a question of perceived interest and perceived loss.)
What separates the White Supremacists (since you insist) - those who support the system of White Supremacy... not to be confused with the David Dukes - from Whites who cannot be classified as White Supremacists is the mindset. Do they or do they not support the system of White Supremacy. Do they or do they not support "radical change within the structure of American society". |
I apologize for not asking my question in the best possible way.
What are the logical mechanicsthat you use to determine which person classified as white IS or IS NOT a White Supremacist?
Finally,
Are you a White person?
Winston
Edited by: Mr Winston at: 12/28/04 11:17 pm
Manning99
Grand Master OG
(12/28/04 10:56 pm)
Re: Does Racism = White Supremacy?
| Quote: |
Quote:
One defintion for Racsim that I use is: The Mistreatment of people on the basis of Color. What is "Institutional Racsim"? |
Institutional racism is a system of advantages or disadvantages based on race, which is much more encompassing than saying it is merely the mistreatment of people based on color.
Because of such systemic practices whether intentional or unintentional, it still ensures one group getting most of all benefits.
| Quote: |
Quote:
By this do you mean that non-white people can practice white-supremacy? |
Yes, because it practices white supremacy for whites.
One of the problems with individualism in the Black community via integration from the Civil Rights Movement is that it takes away from Black, group self-interest. What the majority group fears is organization by those whom they oppress.
If they see a minority group standing up for their group interests it becomes a threat as eventually it leads to a competition--a competition the majority doesn't want. Competition from another means a threat to white supremacy.
Under segregation, Black people created their own economic bases by starting their own businesses, educating their own. Whites feared this seeing Blacks out of their places.
There was a reason why Blacks were disconnected from their history & culture and not allowed to be educated. It was stated outright, during slavery, that if the Negroes become educated, they will desire freedom and rights. When Blacks had the right to vote, whites knew that Blacks would have a voice and power in the political arena.The whites feared losing power. At the polls, or before elections, white would threaten to kill Blacks if they voted. Then there were those high poll taxes that were in place to discourage Blacks from voting.
The Bible was used to justify the slavery and oppression of people of color. It was used to justify white supremacy as well. People of color were lied to about their places in the universe as ordained by God. If Blacks could read, then they would have seen that the Bible does not ordain whites as superior and that Blacks are slaves and inferior.
When you had prosperous Black towns like Rosewood or Black Wall Street, which were torched and people killed, it was because they didn't like seeing Blacks being human. Blacks were considered 3/5 human and whites were totally human as they believed was pre-ordained by God.
Under slavery Blacks knew they were hated and mistreated, but they were also property so whites weren't willing to lose their property. When free, they were no longer property--whites hated that so they decided to engage in terrorism against Blacks for sport.
As soon as integration occured, Black businesses, which were Blacks' own economics bases, were dissolving. Bessie's Boutique went out of business and so did Joe's Hotel. Blacks began spending their money in white owned businesses because it was perceived that what the whites had was better.
Remember, Blacks had undergone a the process of meritorious manumissionism which meant they were seasoned/brainwashed to see the world through the eyes of their oppressors--that white is right, white is better, and that they must depend on whites for any validation.
Individualism has led Blacks to becoming consumers instead of producers. If one is a producer, that means they have some control or power. As consumers it shows one depends on others.
| Quote: |
Quote:
If people classified as white give other people classified as white, "white privileges" isn't that White Supremacy? |
It is because white privilege is born from white supremacy. They are intimately tied. White privilege ensures whites to stay on the top. Class and race are interwoven, intimately, like tapestry.
| Quote: |
Quote:
What mechanism do you use to determine which person classifed as white IS or IS NOT a White Supremacist? |
I cannot identify who exactly is a white supremacist because racism is a lot more subtle, behind the scenes, as white racists will blend in with the mainstream. It isn't nice to express or act out those views.
Those who outright express and act out their racist views are the most identifiable.
With white supremacy and its child, white privilege, in place, all whites benefit consciously or unconsciously from a system that allows their
_________________
Understanding is honoring the truth beneath the surface.
Last edited by Dan Freeman on Mon May 02, 2005 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RangerX
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You sound white to me and this thread seems contrived and I'm shutting it down. |
Interesting.
The moderator stated that you (winston) ***sound*** (?) White ?
Did he hear you speak ? Where was the sound ?
I suspect due to your (many) questions after questions (and following the Logic), he suspected you are a White Person because a Nigger is not supposed to be "acting" that way.
This can't be a Nigger asking all these questions can it ?
-RangerX
RWSWJ |
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Dan Freeman
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 652
Location: Wherever I'm sent.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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An effect of using counter-racist strategies and techniqes is what I've chosen to call "fast-forwarding"... In other words, that's just a catchy way of saying 'Get to the point'.
Anytime a person is in an adverse situation, it will serve to be helpful if that person looks to resolve whatever 'adversity' exits before the adversity gets worse or multiplies...
One thing I've observed about problems is that the longer they continue to go unresolved the worse they become.
Suggestion:
In the event that a victim-of-racsim goes about trying to resolve being mistreated on the basis of color, this should be done by the victim as quickly as possible by focusing on correcting what happened that should not have happened, in addition to minimizing the potential of [it] occuring again in the exact same way.
Winston
_________________
Understanding is honoring the truth beneath the surface. |
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