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Edward Williams
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003
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Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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 Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: C.R.A.P. |
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C.R.A.P. ...That is the acronym for Counter-Racism Art Project. Interesting isn't it?
Mel, who posts on the Work/Study Project periodically, established the Counter-Racism Art Project and holds sessions in Philadelphia and the D.C. area to learn more about countering racism (white supremacy). There was one recently in Philadelphia that was held at a coffee shop downtown where a group of non-white females and non-white males got together to discuss racism and counter-racism.
From this session there was audio and video produced. There were two white males that were in the coffee shop that day that joined the discussion. One younger of the two males said he was a white person and when the older of the two was asked if he was a white person his response was "I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah...". You'll get all kinds of answers when asking people of they are white people...answers other than a "yes" or a "no".
Once we got one of the males to say he was a white person he was asked if the other male that joined the discussion with him was a white person...he eventually said yes, he's a white person. The older male was asked if the assessment of the younger male was correct or incorrect. Again, the older of the two males responded by saying "I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah...". It was then explained to the older of the two males that the question being asked was not of his view of himself but if the assessment of the other of the two males is correct. Again he gave the same response..."I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah...".
Another strategy was used. The older of the two males was asked..."Do you know if you are white person or not?". The older of the two males attempted to respond by saying "I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah..." but it was explained to him that is an answer for a different question. All that was being asked right then was if he knew if he was a white person or not...not if he was a white person.
The older of the two males responded by saying "yes". It is calculable then that he is a white person. If he had answered by saying "no" it would be calculable that he is a non-white person. Now there are a lot of non-white people that say they are not white people but non-white people don't even know what it means to be a white person. I have heard from white people that they don't know what it means to be a non-white person...and they don't want to find out. White people have told me, out of their mouths, that not wanting to be a non-white person is all a white person needs to know about what a non-white person is.
Think about the answer to the question (Do you know if you are white person or not?) the older of the two males gave. If he said "no" it would mean that he is just like all other non-white people...don't know if we will get to function as a white person. Non-white people even have a term that describes when it seems that there is a non-white person that is getting away with functioning as a white person...we call it "passing for white". This has little to do with the person's skin color. Non-white people tend to associate being a white person with a person's skin color and white people support this non-sense because a white person support of confusion among people they say are non-white results in white people being in a position to rule the planet in terms of people...a supreme position by confusing other people. White Supremacy that is achieved by practicing Racism. The cause and effect are the same and that is the reason Racism = White Supremacy.
Since the older of the two males responded by saying he knows if he is a white person or not by answering the question (Do you know if you are white person or not?") I can only suspect that he is a white person and in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) he is a racist suspect.
Another interesting behavior of the older of the two males is that once he answered the question (Do you know if you are white person or not?") with a "yes" answer he left the conversation and didn't return. I suspect this is because he couldn't get away with confusing the non-white people any longer as to whether he was a white person or not.
The way I fast-forward conversations is by eliminating all of the questions I asked that didn't give me the answers I need in order to "do the math" (follow THE LOGIC). Therefore in the future after I ask "Are you a white person" and it appears I'm not getting an answer I need to follow THE LOGIC (do the math) I'll immediately ask the question "Do you know if you are white person or not?". And I keep up this process running experiment after experiment and changing the words I use so that I will use words correctly...meaning find the best thing to say and/or find the best thing to do in every given situation.
Is it a lot of work? Yes...but it is something I'm supposed to be doing anyway. People go to the gun range and shoot targets over, and over, and over again to eventually be able to hit the target "dead-center" with every shot. People even setup staged events so that people can shoot the target and not anything else and be accurate in every shot. This is the process for finding the best way to shoot in every given situation. THE LOGIC connected to refinement is the same logic used to shoot a gun, fire a cannon, use words correctly, exit a building that is on fire, chewing food without biting your tongue, walking without tripping over yourself...it's the same logic. Now take that logic and use it to counter racism (white supremacy).
Counter-racist codification is the same way. You find the best thing to say and/or the best thing to do in every given situation that will enable you to...and these are five key words...replace white supremacy with justice.
Hopefully...soon...the audio and the video for the last three C.R.A.P. sessions will be available in the Counter-Racism Mall. If you'd like to get a copy please respond to this post. If Mel doesn't sell the product soon i'm gonna start giving it away.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Josh
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Another strategy was used. The older of the two males was asked..."Do you know if you are white person or not?". The older of the two males attempted to respond by saying "I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah..." but it was explained to him that is an answer for a different question. All that was being asked right then was if he knew if he was a white person or not...not if he was a white person.
The older of the two males responded by saying "yes". |
Yes, this was one of the most interesting exchanges of the discussion. I had "hit a wall" in terms of getting the critical question answered, but VGOD found a way to do it by asking a question the older gentleman was pretty much forced to answer because to not answer made his participation "invalid".
He knew this and thats why he answer it.
When he did, we all understood what it meant, but only VGOD had the language to describe the logic behind it which is what he did in his post.
I "hit the wall" but VGOD "went though it"
His suggestion: "in the future after I ask "Are you a white person" and it appears I'm not getting an answer I need to follow THE LOGIC (do the math) I'll immediately ask the question "Do you know if you are white person or not?".
is one I may use because I often have trouble getting an answer to the critical question.
Josh |
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Karim
Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 329
Location: Orion's Belt
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: Re: C.R.A.P. |
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| Virtual_GOD wrote: |
C.R.A.P. ...That is the acronym for Counter-Racism Art Project. Interesting isn't it?
Mel, who posts on the Work/Study Project periodically, established the Counter-Racism Art Project and holds sessions in Philadelphia and the D.C. area to learn more about countering racism (white supremacy). There was one recently in Philadelphia that was held at a coffee shop downtown where a group of non-white females and non-white males got together to discuss racism and counter-racism.
From this session there was audio and video produced. There were two white males that were in the coffee shop that day that joined the discussion. One younger of the two males said he was a white person and when the older of the two was asked if he was a white person his response was "I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah...". You'll get all kinds of answers when asking people of they are white people...answers other than a "yes" or a "no".
Once we got one of the males to say he was a white person he was asked if the other male that joined the discussion with him was a white person...he eventually said yes, he's a white person. The older male was asked if the assessment of the younger male was correct or incorrect. Again, the older of the two males responded by saying "I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah...". It was then explained to the older of the two males that the question being asked was not of his view of himself but if the assessment of the other of the two males is correct. Again he gave the same response..."I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah...".
Another strategy was used. The older of the two males was asked..."Do you know if you are white person or not?". The older of the two males attempted to respond by saying "I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah..." but it was explained to him that is an answer for a different question. All that was being asked right then was if he knew if he was a white person or not...not if he was a white person.
The older of the two males responded by saying "yes". It is calculable then that he is a white person. If he had answered by saying "no" it would be calculable that he is a non-white person. Now there are a lot of non-white people that say they are not white people but non-white people don't even know what it means to be a white person. I have heard from white people that they don't know what it means to be a non-white person...and they don't want to find out. White people have told me, out of their mouths, that not wanting to be a non-white person is all a white person needs to know about what a non-white person is.
Think about the answer to the question (Do you know if you are white person or not?) the older of the two males gave. If he said "no" it would mean that he is just like all other non-white people...don't know if we will get to function as a white person. Non-white people even have a term that describes when it seems that there is a non-white person that is getting away with functioning as a white person...we call it "passing for white". This has little to do with the person's skin color. Non-white people tend to associate being a white person with a person's skin color and white people support this non-sense because a white person support of confusion among people they say are non-white results in white people being in a position to rule the planet in terms of people...a supreme position by confusing other people. White Supremacy that is achieved by practicing Racism. The cause and effect are the same and that is the reason Racism = White Supremacy.
Since the older of the two males responded by saying he knows if he is a white person or not by answering the question (Do you know if you are white person or not?") I can only suspect that he is a white person and in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) he is a racist suspect.
Another interesting behavior of the older of the two males is that once he answered the question (Do you know if you are white person or not?") with a "yes" answer he left the conversation and didn't return. I suspect this is because he couldn't get away with confusing the non-white people any longer as to whether he was a white person or not.
The way I fast-forward conversations is by eliminating all of the questions I asked that didn't give me the answers I need in order to "do the math" (follow THE LOGIC). Therefore in the future after I ask "Are you a white person" and it appears I'm not getting an answer I need to follow THE LOGIC (do the math) I'll immediately ask the question "Do you know if you are white person or not?". And I keep up this process running experiment after experiment and changing the words I use so that I will use words correctly...meaning find the best thing to say and/or find the best thing to do in every given situation.
Is it a lot of work? Yes...but it is something I'm supposed to be doing anyway. People go to the gun range and shoot targets over, and over, and over again to eventually be able to hit the target "dead-center" with every shot. People even setup staged events so that people can shoot the target and not anything else and be accurate in every shot. This is the process for finding the best way to shoot in every given situation. THE LOGIC connected to refinement is the same logic used to shoot a gun, fire a cannon, use words correctly, exit a building that is on fire, chewing food without biting your tongue, walking without tripping over yourself...it's the same logic. Now take that logic and use it to counter racism (white supremacy).
Counter-racist codification is the same way. You find the best thing to say and/or the best thing to do in every given situation that will enable you to...and these are five key words...replace white supremacy with justice.
Hopefully...soon...the audio and the video for the last three C.R.A.P. sessions will be available in the Counter-Racism Mall. If you'd like to get a copy please respond to this post. If Mel doesn't sell the product soon i'm gonna start giving it away. |
Excellent post... I really enjoyed reading and learning from it...
May I suggest that this topic be put under Counter-Racism Strategies and Techniques... it's very Insightful.
I suspect someday we will all be at the E=MC2 of countering racism/white supremacy.
_________________
Replace White Supremacy (racism) with Ma'at |
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Dan Freeman
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 652
Location: Wherever I'm sent.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:22 am Post subject: Re: |
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| Josh wrote: |
| Quote: |
Another strategy was used. The older of the two males was asked..."Do you know if you are white person or not?". The older of the two males attempted to respond by saying "I don't conceptualize myself...blah blah blah..." but it was explained to him that is an answer for a different question. All that was being asked right then was if he knew if he was a white person or not...not if he was a white person.
The older of the two males responded by saying "yes". |
Yes, this was one of the most interesting exchanges of the discussion. I had "hit a wall" in terms of getting the critical question answered, but VGOD found a way to do it by asking a question the older gentleman was pretty much forced to answer because to not answer made his participation "invalid".
He knew this and thats why he answer it.
When he did, we all understood what it meant, but only VGOD had the language to describe the logic behind it which is what he did in his post.
I "hit the wall" but VGOD "went though it"
His suggestion: "in the future after I ask "Are you a white person" and it appears I'm not getting an answer I need to follow THE LOGIC (do the math) I'll immediately ask the question "Do you know if you are white person or not?".
is one I may use because I often have trouble getting an answer to the critical question.
Josh |
| Quote: |
| When he did, we all understood what it meant, but only VGOD had the language to describe the logic behind it which is what he did in his post. |
In terms of racsim and/or counter-racism Language is the final stop.
And I think Josh's post illustrates just that. As Josh said, "we all understood what it meant", but if you don't have the accurate Language to describe what it is happening what you think may be counter-racist code is gonna dissolve quickly right in front of your eyes in an exchange about Racism with Racist-Suspects. And before you know it, you'll be talking in circles, which works in a Racist-Suspects favor.
It's all in the words.
This is what the process of codifacation should be all about. Creating the Language to best describe what is happening in addition to creating the best Language to counter it.
Isn't this is what lawyers get paid big bucks to do?
One way I arrive at the best Language is by Following The Logic. It always seems to take me where I need to go in any given situation.
I could be incorrect.
smallz
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Understanding is honoring the truth beneath the surface. |
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Edward Williams
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3284
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: C.R.A.P. |
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| Karim wrote: |
Excellent post... I really enjoyed reading and learning from it...
May I suggest that this topic be put under Counter-Racism Strategies and Techniques... it's very Insightful.
I suspect someday we will all be at the E=MC2 of countering racism/white supremacy. |
There is currently a thread under the Counter-Racism Strategies and Techniques forum entitled "Asking white people questions..." that was posted in May of 2003. I will post it there as well.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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Josh
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer
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| Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Another interesting behavior of the older of the two males is that once he answered the question (Do you know if you are white person or not?") with a "yes" answer he left the conversation and didn't return. |
Ive been trying to think of a good metaphor for what this gentleman was experiencing, and I think I have one.
Because we started with the "critical question" (which he would not answer), everything else he said was suspect.
Its the equivelent of a discussion of sexual intercourse where one of the participants will not say if he is male or female.
(and you can't tell)
"Are you a White person?"
"well, I don't conceptualize myself that way bla bla bla"
He used this tactic to barricade the front and back doors...
But VGOD came down the chimney (or through the walls) when he asked the gentleman ***if he knew if he was a White person***.
The gentlemans "yes" answer to that question made his previous answer suspect: "well, I don't conceptualize myself that way bla bla bla"
He left after that.
Josh |
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Edward Williams
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3284
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: when should you ask the question |
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| nwmajority wrote: |
| Question: Should this question be asked with everyone before entering any type of discussion? |
That is for the individual to decide. United-Independent.
Each individual person has to decide what counter-racism codification works best for them and when is the right time for them to use it. It may be some counter-racism code that they came up with out of necessity. All counter-racism codification is not in the so-called codebook.
For example, part of the United States Constitution can be used to work against any white person that may be attempting to mistreat people they classify as non-white on the basis of that classification. but the Constitution is not in the UICCSC (United-Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept). The bible can be considered the codebook for Christians. The Quran can be considered the codebook for Muslims. And so on and so forth. There is counter-racism codification floating all around. It's all just words. If you do not want to be confused in a conversation about racism (white supremacy) you definitely may want to ask which person in the conversation is a white person.
There is a counter-racism science experiment posted that directly addresses this subject. You can find it here:
ARE YOU A WHITE PERSON?
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What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE? |
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