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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Edward Williams wrote:
RecoveringAa wrote:
Well today is Tuesday and they may be calling to meet with me regarding my concerns. I have no ideal what to expect at this point.
I have been reading on this site and I suppose whatever happens, I will just work to follow the LOGIC.

Use the If/then and stay focused on asking questions.

The people I am meeting with have never acknowledged that they are duty bound to defend the Constitution. That indicates a slight issue as the whole premise was to get people behind the Constitution or to keep myself there as protection...as the Constitution was written to insure.

I suppose I will take more of a supporting role to do my best to get you the help you need. I had hoped HelixHair would help you through this process since she helped you draft the initial e-mail. While I understood some of the initial e-mail I could not follow where most of it would take you. I was left to give suggestions to you throughout the process and to help you to see what you were looking at by describing what was taking place and what you could expect next.

I apologize for the spotty direction and/or instruction, in the form of suggestions, that you have received both from myself and HelixHair.

Why would they meet with you again if you have already had at least two meetings and they have admitted to wrongdoing?


Mr. Williams:

1) Did you apologize to Aa for me? If so, why?

2) The email was designed to produce a meeting AND/OR to establish who in the agency would confirm and who would abstain from confirming a duty to support the Constitution. The purpose of the meeting was to present evidence of probable cause in such a way that those with the ability would correct the problem as fast as possible. This is usually done when white persons, directly or indirectly, are motivated to avoid a statement or finding of guilt of themselves or one or more other white persons. All of those objectives seem to have been met. Mr. Williams, have you listened to the radio programs in which this was discussed by Aa and I?
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HelixHair wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
RecoveringAa wrote:
Well today is Tuesday and they may be calling to meet with me regarding my concerns. I have no ideal what to expect at this point.
I have been reading on this site and I suppose whatever happens, I will just work to follow the LOGIC.

Use the If/then and stay focused on asking questions.

The people I am meeting with have never acknowledged that they are duty bound to defend the Constitution. That indicates a slight issue as the whole premise was to get people behind the Constitution or to keep myself there as protection...as the Constitution was written to insure.

I suppose I will take more of a supporting role to do my best to get you the help you need. I had hoped HelixHair would help you through this process since she helped you draft the initial e-mail. While I understood some of the initial e-mail I could not follow where most of it would take you. I was left to give suggestions to you throughout the process and to help you to see what you were looking at by describing what was taking place and what you could expect next.

I apologize for the spotty direction and/or instruction, in the form of suggestions, that you have received both from myself and HelixHair.

Why would they meet with you again if you have already had at least two meetings and they have admitted to wrongdoing?


Mr. Williams:

1) Did you apologize to Aa for me? If so, why?

2) The email was designed to produce a meeting AND/OR to establish who in the agency would confirm and who would abstain from confirming a duty to support the Constitution. The purpose of the meeting was to present evidence of probable cause in such a way that those with the ability would correct the problem as fast as possible. This is usually done when white persons, directly or indirectly, are motivated to avoid a statement or finding of guilt of themselves or one or more other white persons. All of those objectives seem to have been met. Mr. Williams, have you listened to the radio programs in which this was discussed by Aa and I?

I apologize if I have offended anyone. It is probably best to stay focused on helping the person who needs help the most. In doing so, henceforth, I will not interfere in the discussion between you and RecoveringAa.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
Greetings Edward Williams..

Are you saying that you are no longer willing to help me?


Abena

No, I'm not saying that at all. If you have questions for me please do not hesitate to post them here and I will answer here.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I stated previously I would wait a while, about a week or two, and send an e-mail requesting a status. They will probably respond that they are working on a solution...or looking into it...or something of that nature. In my requests for status I have always made sure to keep the focus on supporting and defending the United States Constitution.

It depends though on the urgency of your situation. Everyone does not have a week or two to wait before they request a status. You will have to judge the wait time based on your situation.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
Ok...so I had my second meeting today.

I'd like to TALK about it during a show. Can either of you be available on Friday? I took the day off so can do a meeting earlier in the day or my regular time at 9 pm.

I did take notes and did my best to document what was said. They promised to give me all discussed in writing as well.

Basically, the meeting involved them telling me what they have done and intend to do to solve the concerns I raised.

Is there anything I should do next in conclusion of this round? By \"round\" I mean, this round in the battle for Justice.

Abena

I think I will be available. What time are you thinking?
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
Ok...so I had my second meeting today.

I'd like to TALK about it during a show. Can either of you be available on Friday? I took the day off so can do a meeting earlier in the day or my regular time at 9 pm.

I did take notes and did my best to document what was said. They promised to give me all discussed in writing as well.

Basically, the meeting involved them telling me what they have done and intend to do to solve the concerns I raised.

Is there anything I should do next in conclusion of this round? By \\\\\\\"round\\\\\\\" I mean, this round in the battle for Justice.

Abena


I can be available at 9PM EDT on Friday, the usual time of your show. However, if you and Mr. Williams decide upon another time, I will try to make myself available. Please let me know the planned time for the show on 7/23/10.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
RecoveringAa wrote:
Ok...so I had my second meeting today.

I'd like to TALK about it during a show. Can either of you be available on Friday? I took the day off so can do a meeting earlier in the day or my regular time at 9 pm.

I did take notes and did my best to document what was said. They promised to give me all discussed in writing as well.

Basically, the meeting involved them telling me what they have done and intend to do to solve the concerns I raised.

Is there anything I should do next in conclusion of this round? By 'round' I mean, this round in the battle for Justice.

Abena

I think I will be available. What time are you thinking?


I am thinking of doing the show my regular time at 9 pm. Does this work for you?

I will set my alarm to it. I hope I am able to attend.

The idea of writing the process on the WSP is so that other people who are experiencing, or who may think they may experience the same things, will be better prepared. This will not be possible in this case as much of it is being discussed elsewhere. People will have many questions in this case because there is much information missing. There have been and continue to be discussions on radio programs that may produce gaps in understanding.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
I am unable to sleep tonight. My mind continues to replay the conversation and I become more and more aware of the things that were not said, by myself and by them.

Have either of you experienced this problem when working to counter racism in the workplace?
If so, how have to addressed it?

Yes, I have experienced it. I just make sure I am able to use whatever is said and/or done by others to support and defend the United States Constitution. And when I can't use it for that express purpose I ask questions about what is said and/or done in regard to HOW it supports the 5th and 14th Amendments specifically.

I learned early on not to beat myself up because of what I said or failed to say. I'm not responsible for this SYSTEM being in place. It was here when I got here. It's like waking up and realizing I'm in prison and I begin to try things to bring that prison down and implement a SYSTEM where mistreatment doesn't exist. Some of the things I say and do are just not gonna work. But I realize that I do not know something until I know it. Then I stop beating myself up for trying things that don't work. I just move on to try the next logical thing...until I am able to figure out how to try first the most logical thing.

RecoveringAa wrote:
If not, do you have any suggestions.
I do remind myself of what I am up against regarding the systemic nature of this battle, the expected behaviors of other victims and the fear of retaliation.

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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
Thank You HelixHair and Edward Williams for taking the time to talk with me on my show.
If anyone is interested in hearing what was discussed, feel free to do so at
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rna/2010/07/24/continuing-the-process-of-countering-racism-in-the-workplace

One thing stated by Edward Williams that is a bit discouraging was \"this is as good as it gets\". The implication that NOTHING I or anyone else can effect a CHANGE in this system because whites and non-whites alike are NOT likely to change their behaviors. Those 'behaviors' are mistreating non-white people.
If this is the case and true, and I agreed that it is true based on my experiences THEN, what is next? It seems based on this reality that I would set myself up to fight a \"losing battle\".

Is this what we are truly up against...the fighting of a losing battle?


There must be some misunderstanding. What I stated was 'this is as good as it gets', referring to what you were saying about how you feel going through the process, because the smartest most powerful white people do not share it with each other when they are pushed into a corner and wind up helping non-white people. Because they do not share it with each other the non-white people end up going through this process again and again. This is the relentless action by the smartest most powerful white people that I spoke about. I also stated that non-white people must also be just as relentless in their practice to produce justice. So much so that non-white people have to develop an affection for the process itself to keep us motivated. At the time, and other times throughout the program, we were talking about how alone and mistreated you felt.

I never stated that people's behavior would not change...either white or non-white. Their behavior is changing if they are addressing your concerns if they have not addressed your concerns in the past. And you are learning how to use words so that two things happen; you are not mistreated and so that you are able to get the help you need when you need it.

One other thing is happening that we did not discuss. They are becoming acclimated to the language that you are using. This is critical to understand because once you refine your language you will have to do less work next time when talking to the same people. If it is a situation where there are all new people involved, presumably refining your speech and actions will cause things to move more rapidly and moreso to your advantage.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
So, I listened again to the broadcast done on Friday evening and has I listened and processed, I was reminded of the initial meeting in which the following happened.

The H.R. person, Ms. L., at the end of the meeting asked that I not share anything that was discussed in the meeting. I agreed to this then documented it in an email to her and the other person in the meeting Mr. H.

I have a sense that 1. it was not due process to withhold the information shared in that meeting from others who had been invited to the meeting. 2. by agreeing to withhold that information, I set myself up as a person who is not doing things correctly and 3. as a result, I have set myself up for further harm as I have demonstrated insufficient knowledge and/or skill at upholding the law and defending the constitution by following due process.

Do you think this a correct assessment?

Is it due process not to discuss the content of an investigation during that investigation?
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
This is interesting. I posted a response here on Saturday and now it's gone.

At any rate...what I had said was...


I imagined there had been no reply as I did not ask a direct question.
I then added a lot of information regarding upcoming events, my wait for written summary and that fact that Mr. H. informed me of his intent to have said written summary by today, Monday.

I indicated that the mistreatment was continuing and I thought I would need to meet with Mr.S., Mr. H's supervisor.

I stated my increasing anxiety regarding my ability to successfully use the counter-racism strategy to protect myself and my consumers.

Finally, I asked a question that I can not recall now!

Is it due process to NOT discuss information during an investigation?

My supervisor continues to support what appears as inappropriate behavior towards the consumer's and she supports what ever my co-worker does even if it causes harm to the consumers.

I will say this, it seems racism/white supremacy is reigning high at my workplace as all of the non-white people are fighting each other as a hostile work environment has been supported. Mr. H. spoke with my co-worker regarding behaviors that were inappropriate. She is no longer speaking to me, has requested a group be dis-banned because she can not work with me and I remain in the position of scapegoat for their acting out behaviors.

Without continued discussions and support here, I am not likely to be able to successfully utilize this strategy for countering racism in the workplace.


You have my support to as best I am able, Aa. Was the issue of your co-worker not attending meetings and/or canceling groups, etc. raises during either of the two confidential meetings? If yes, I suggest requesting a meeting with Mr. ___________ to resolve it. If not, I suggest sending an email simply requesting another brief meeting "as directed" by " Mr. _____________". The white male who emailed you about further resolution.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads-up. I have reset the Administrator's password.

I check the number of posts and who they are posted by on a daily basis and have not seen any posts since the two posts you made on Thursday of last week (July 29, 2010), until your post today and HelixHair's post today.
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

RecoveringAa wrote:
RecoveringAa wrote:
Edward Williams wrote:
Thanks for the heads-up. I have reset the Administrator's password.

I check the number of posts and who they are posted by on a daily basis and have not seen any posts since the two posts you made on Thursday of last week (July 29, 2010), until your post today and HelixHair's post today.


Ok..I don't know what happened yet I recall seeing the options to \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"view your message\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" or \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"go back to forum\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" statements (they may not be precise).

It worked out in that it supported my lengthy post and the memo I needed to write yet could not on Friday or this weekend.

I DID start it and this is how I began....I am looking for suggestions in using the BEST WORDS to get the job done.

Quote:
To: J. S. PsyD , V.P. B.H.S.
From: M.S.S. D/A Out-pt. Counselor
Date: 8/2/10
Re: Subversion of U.S. Constitution

Mr. S,
This is a follow up and report of activities which continue the subversion of the Constitution in the out-pt. department, D/A program. I did meet with Mr. H and Ms. L on two occasions. In that first meeting, neither Mr. Holt nor Ms. L understood the connection between Horizon House’s policies and procedures, the State Laws they uphold and by default, the U.S. Constitution.
As you may be aware, the fourteenth and fifth amendments of the Constitution speak to due process and Equal Protection under the law. H. H. policies regarding Ethical behaviors are in support of those amendments. When I speak of subversive


this was as far as I got!?:(

Also, recall I have been awaiting the written summary from Mr. H. and Ms. L. I suspect I should receive it tomorrow.

So it is now exactly 2 weeks since the last meeting and I have still not received the promised written summary. The mistreatment continues.
What is the best way to approach things now?


I really would not put the points in an email. I would address an email to Mr. S, the highest ranking official who has responded to your inquiry (although briefly) in writing with a cc to the two lower-level managers who met with you in the previous two mtgs requesting an additional mtg with the two lower-level officials or, in the alternative, with Mr. S. I would wait to see if the promised written document is delivered to you as scheduled.

The compensatory code method is to examine what was received and compare it to what is needed, if the two are not the same, compensate for the difference. Your attempt at compensating for the difference could be to ask for the items in a meeting w/ Mr. S . I would not turn loose of the leverage you have right now by allowing them to keep the negotiations out of writing.

The leverage is their motivation to avoid written confirmation of the changes that would validate that there had been incorrect/unconstitutional acts under the watch of their management. That motivation may get you concrete action that you need quicker and without the even more exhausting fights that you would get when its all on the record. That's why civil suit negotiations are all off the record. When negotiations break down, all favorable statements to either side are no longer confidential.
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMPORTANT:

DO NOT, Repeat, DO NOT title your email: \"Subversion of Constitution\"

That would be an indictment/charge. You are just in the inquiry stage. I would simply entitle the email--Inquiry About Due Process/ Request for Meeting
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HelixHair



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aa,

I did not see the post regarding the Blogtalkradio show until well after it had already occurred. I did listen to the archive of it. I think it would be helpful to the readers, if you could post on this site the document you received Friday from the black male.

Since, you have the document now and the writer has told you that he considers the matter closed, I agree that you should move on to Mr. S, the white male who told you to communicate with him if the matters were not resolved at the lower level.

I hope you saw my post strongly suggesting that you NOT entitle the email: Subversion of the U.S. Constitution.
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