HomeCounter-Racism Radio NetworkCounter-Racism Television NetworkArticlesProjectsCounter-Racism Work/Study ProjectShopping MallContact
Secure DonationsSecure Donations  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  ProfileProfile  Log inLog in

white devil!
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Counter-Racism Work/Study Project Forum Index -> Counter-Racism Strategies and Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
James Jones
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: white devil! Reply with quote

dr pepper wrote:
i know many white people who treat everybody equally. i know many non-white people who treat everybody equally. i know plenty of white people who treat people differently based on color. i know plenty of non-white people who treat people differently based on color. don't bother typing "dr pepper, are you a white person?" i am going to answer it for you, since it seems like the bulk of most of the people's "conversations" with "racist suspects" consists of asking very generic questions. i am a hispanic male. my mother is from camaguey, cuba, and my father is from havana, cuba.

my belief (now, there is no such thing as absolute truth, but only relative truth...that is a contradictory statement, but i hope you get what i am saying) is that the deliberate application of science to social change (which appears to be the evident strategy) is counter-productive to your cause. why? by teaching yourself that when a white person says this, he or she really means this, you are only deceiving yourself. sure, there will be cases when you are correct in your assumption, but it's like saying "when the dog barks, that means that he is hungry," when in reality it can mean a multitude of things (such as having to go outside of the house to relieve himself/herself). by employing such tactics to "countering racism," typically a lot of things said by white people ends up getting ignored. therefore, eventually they can easily lose interest in what you are saying, and become a bit frustrated. that can cause them to have racist thoughts. i really believe that being friendly and reasonable with people when you want them to change something is the way to go, rather than simply saying "and how do you plan on changing this system of white supremacy to a system of justice?" or "why do you practice white supremacy?" etc.

so, do you practice racism (black supremacy)?


Which question specifically?
Back to top
Karim



Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 329
Location: Orion's Belt

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: asdf Reply with quote

dr pepper wrote:
hello Karim. thank you for the greeting.
i appreciate the link, but i had read it before. i have been doing a bit of lurking in this message board for a little over a month now. simply observing how everything goes along.
honestly, i'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but as i said, it is slightly disconcerting when the only thing that somebody has to say in response to something i have said, is a question.
If you have been "observing how everything goes" then you would know that before I answer any of your questions, you must first answer the critical question, which is,

Are you a white person?
_________________
Replace White Supremacy (racism) with Ma'at
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
dr pepper



Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: -126

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: white devil! Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
dr pepper wrote:
i know many white people who treat everybody equally. i know many non-white people who treat everybody equally. i know plenty of white people who treat people differently based on color. i know plenty of non-white people who treat people differently based on color. don't bother typing "dr pepper, are you a white person?" i am going to answer it for you, since it seems like the bulk of most of the people's "conversations" with "racist suspects" consists of asking very generic questions. i am a hispanic male. my mother is from camaguey, cuba, and my father is from havana, cuba.

my belief (now, there is no such thing as absolute truth, but only relative truth...that is a contradictory statement, but i hope you get what i am saying) is that the deliberate application of science to social change (which appears to be the evident strategy) is counter-productive to your cause. why? by teaching yourself that when a white person says this, he or she really means this, you are only deceiving yourself. sure, there will be cases when you are correct in your assumption, but it's like saying "when the dog barks, that means that he is hungry," when in reality it can mean a multitude of things (such as having to go outside of the house to relieve himself/herself). by employing such tactics to "countering racism," typically a lot of things said by white people ends up getting ignored. therefore, eventually they can easily lose interest in what you are saying, and become a bit frustrated. that can cause them to have racist thoughts. i really believe that being friendly and reasonable with people when you want them to change something is the way to go, rather than simply saying "and how do you plan on changing this system of white supremacy to a system of justice?" or "why do you practice white supremacy?" etc.

so, do you practice racism (black supremacy)?


Which question specifically?


thank you for asking that. the one on the very bottom. "do you practice racism (black supremacy)?" i would put "non-white supremacy" so as to include every colored person, but it just doesn't sound right. if you are a white person, the question isn't directed towards you. i apologize for the whole thing being a bit long-winded, and possibly a bit incoherent. i would be very clear and concise, but i am awful at tailoring what i have to say for other peoples understanding.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dr pepper



Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: -126

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: asdf Reply with quote

Karim wrote:
dr pepper wrote:
hello Karim. thank you for the greeting.
i appreciate the link, but i had read it before. i have been doing a bit of lurking in this message board for a little over a month now. simply observing how everything goes along.
honestly, i'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but as i said, it is slightly disconcerting when the only thing that somebody has to say in response to something i have said, is a question.
If you have been "observing how everything goes" then you would know that before I answer any of your questions, you must first answer the critical question, which is,

Are you a white person?


yes, i have noticed that it is the introductory question. however, i don't believe that it should go that way. if you don't wish to do things in order, and do not want to answer mine so that i can answer yours, i respect that and i suppose we can't really go any further.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Karim



Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 329
Location: Orion's Belt

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: asdf Reply with quote

dr pepper wrote:
Karim wrote:
dr pepper wrote:
hello Karim. thank you for the greeting.
i appreciate the link, but i had read it before. i have been doing a bit of lurking in this message board for a little over a month now. simply observing how everything goes along.
honestly, i'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but as i said, it is slightly disconcerting when the only thing that somebody has to say in response to something i have said, is a question.
If you have been "observing how everything goes" then you would know that before I answer any of your questions, you must first answer the critical question, which is,

Are you a white person?


yes, i have noticed that it is the introductory question. however, i don't believe that it should go that way. if you don't wish to do things in order, and do not want to answer mine so that i can answer yours, i respect that and i suppose we can't really go any further.
Then how is your post countering-racism/white supremacy?

"i have been doing a bit of lurking in this message board for a little over a month now. simply observing how everything goes along."--- Dr. Pepper
_________________
Replace White Supremacy (racism) with Ma'at
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
dr pepper



Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: -126

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Then how is your post countering-racism/white supremacy?
"i have been doing a bit of lurking in this message board for a little over a month now. simply observing how everything goes along."--- Dr. Pepper


sorry, but i am not going to bend to the rules of this game. if my question isn't answered, i'm not going any further. pretty cut and dry. i guess you and i simply can't communicate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Karim



Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 329
Location: Orion's Belt

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

dr pepper wrote:

sorry, but i am not going to bend to the rules of this game. if my question isn't answer, i'm not going any further. pretty cut and dry. i guess you and i simply can't communicate.
You know what

I usually don't do this but...

dr pepper wrote:
do you practice racism (black supremacy)?


1)How(The mechanics) are black people supreme?
_________________
Replace White Supremacy (racism) with Ma'at
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
James Jones
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: white devil! Reply with quote

dr pepper wrote:
NECKST wrote:

Which question specifically?


Do you practice racism (black supremacy)?


As a Non-White Person subject to RACISM/WHITE SUPREMACY, I am unable to exercise SUPREMACY over ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, at ANY TIME.

As a Non-White Person subject to RACISM/WHITE SUPREMACY, I do not and cannot (logically speaking) PRACTICE RACISM.

As a Non-White Person subject to RACISM/WHITE SUPREMACY, I am primarily interested in REPLACING the SYSTEM of RACISM/WHITE SUPREMACY WITH JUSTICE.

Justice being the GUARANTEE that NO ONE is mistreated, and person in need of the MOST HELP gets the MOST HELP.
-------------------------------------------------
Dr. Pepper,
Are you a White person?
Back to top
dr pepper



Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: -126

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karim:
simply believing that colored people are on a higher level than white people. preferring to associate with colored people instead of white people. not allowing white people to become close to you. mainly, just having a thing against white people. i suppose the definition of racism is different for everybody. words are obviously nothing more than a means of getting a message across. i should have stated what i consider racism in the first place. sorry for not being specific.

NECKST:
firstly, i understand why you might feel like that but don't necessarily agree with it.

now to answer both of your questions, Karim and NECKST:
as i said originally, i am a hispanic male. my skin is "tan." anyways, even if i was a "white" person, it is often brought up against the people that you call white that their skin color isn't white. technically speaking, this is of course true. so even if i was what people considered a "white person," i wouldn't really be white anyways..so i could answer that as "No, i am not white."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James Jones
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:01 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

dr pepper wrote:
Karim:
simply believing that colored people are on a higher level than white people. preferring to associate with colored people instead of white people. not allowing white people to become close to you. mainly, just having a thing against white people. i suppose the definition of racism is different for everybody. words are obviously nothing more than a means of getting a message across. i should have stated what i consider racism in the first place. sorry for not being specific.

NECKST:
firstly, i understand why you might feel like that but don't necessarily agree with it.

now to answer both of your questions, Karim and NECKST:
as i said originally, i am a hispanic male. my skin is "tan." anyways, even if i was a "white" person, it is often brought up against the people that you call white that their skin color isn't white. technically speaking, this is of course true. so even if i was what people considered a "white person," i wouldn't really be white anyways..so i could answer that as "No, i am not white."


Dr pepper,
As a Non-White person I have the RIGHT not to be deceived.


A White person is a person who has been classified as "White", accepted as "White" by other people classified as "White", and who generally function as "White" in all of the nine major areas of activity including economics, education, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex, and war.

Are you a White Person?


Last edited by James Jones on Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
dr pepper



Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: -126

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:14 am    Post subject: asdf Reply with quote

nope.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Karim



Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 329
Location: Orion's Belt

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:34 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

dr pepper wrote:
Karim:
simply believing that colored people are on a higher level than white people. preferring to associate with colored people instead of white people. not allowing white people to become close to you. mainly, just having a thing against white people. i suppose the definition of racism is different for everybody. words are obviously nothing more than a means of getting a message across. i should have stated what i consider racism in the first place. sorry for not being specific.


Let's break this down...

dr pepper wrote:
simply believing that colored people are on a higher level than white people...
What "level?"...

dr pepper wrote:
preferring to associate with colored people instead of white people
"I" associate with all people...

dr pepper wrote:
not allowing white people to become close to you.
Hell I work with, live by, and encounter white people daily... How close is close?

dr pepper wrote:
mainly, just having a thing against white people
I have nothing agianst whites... I'm trying to end what they have agianst me.

dr pepper wrote:
i suppose the definition of racism is different for everybody.
What is your definition of racism?

dr pepper wrote:
words are obviously nothing more than a means of getting a message across. i should have stated what i consider racism in the first place
What is your definition of racism?

Let me lay out my questions so you can address them accordantly,

1)What "level?"...

2)How close is close?

3)What is your definition of racism?

4)Are you a white person?

5)And how does this counter-racism?
_________________
Replace White Supremacy (racism) with Ma'at


Last edited by Karim on Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
HighHouse



Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forum dr pepper

You point of view is very refreshing. I've been through the same things you have on this forum; they answer your questions with questions, try to bend you to their doctrine, and so on.

Please keep posting.

-highhouse
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I felt that way at first, but then I came to see the logic that being white means you function in a different way than non-white. So I got past that gatekeeping series of questions about being white and what is white and how I function.

I do understand the frustration with it because I felt it, and felt very confused by it on another forum too, but it's a method to try to get you to see that being white isn't so much about skin color as about perception and function.

For example:

In the 1960's Being White was "being someone who could ride in the front of the bus".

In the 1700's being white in this country was "someone who could own slaves".

In the Capitol dome of our country, being white in the mural is being even SHOWN and depicted in the mural; black people aren't even depicted except for one Native American woman.

In the 1800's, right before the Civil War, being black was to be a slave, perhaps hauling the stones to build the Capitol dome that would later have a mural that would leave you out of the picture.

I'm an obsterperous disagreer with a lot of things that are said here, but one thing I HAVE come to understand is this being white as function logic. I thank people here for opening my eyes to that particular form of reasoning it out. However, it is disturbing that one cannot be accepted as meaning well if one does not agree with all areas of a philosophy. That always disturbs and even frightens me to see total unanimity of thought on a discussion board or anywhere.

I do feel instinctively the well-meaning of Highhouse, Conehead, etc., even though often I disagree with THEM too. We all have to be allowed to be ourselves with our own minds, right?

cloudsong
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I add one more point? - what has disturbed me about this forum is the number of well-meaning white people I have seen come and then leave here feeling not good about this experience.

Yes, there have been rude racist white people -- but I mean, there are really good white people who came wanting to communicate and connect and discuss how to make things better, and they have left.

Does that show that something needs to be tweaked, here, or is that an acceptable risk taken by sticking to insisting that the logic be followed even if it is misunderstood by white people who come here...

I don't mean to be an arrogant white person to ask this, I've just observed the effect and wondered if that's acceptable to the people here and is productive to your goals - cloudsong
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Counter-Racism Work/Study Project Forum Index -> Counter-Racism Strategies and Techniques All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Web CalendarShopping MallDonations