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The Critical Question
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Dan Freeman



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 651
Location: Wherever I'm sent.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:58 pm    Post subject: The Critical Question Reply with quote

Non white people should really take note to how someone answers the Critical Question:

Are you a white person?

When the answer is "YES", I suspect that white person has just practiced Racism/White Supremacy.

I say this because, in order for that person who says "YES" to the Critical Question to qualify thier answer, or make the rubber-meet-the-road so to speak, there are mechanics involved in making this a reality.

I suspect those mechanics play-out by way of other white people either upholding or disregarding the statement
Quote:
"I'm a white person"
.

Simply meaning, if a substantial number of white people don't all agree that a particular person is white, that person is a NIGGER.

That's Racsim/White Supremacy.

I don't suspect white people ARE confused about what a white person is.

One could ask, how could white people be SUPREME if they aren't clear on what a white person is?

Much like V.god's "Doctor" analogy in another thread;

I can simply call myself "Doctor Smallz"and imitate a "doctor", until I get in close proximity to some real Doctors.

For examply, If I where to run into some "real doctors", I'm sure they would want to check my "credentials" (credentials = COLOR) before deciding to let me "pass".

Pass who?

Pass those "real doctors" that's who.

smallz
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to classify people as "white" or "non-white".

As a person classified as white, when someone asks me if I'm white, I'm wondering if I could start saying, "I don't believe in classifying people as white or non-white because that idea is what's behind white supremacy/racism."

Or would they look at me like I'm nuts? But sometimes that's what it takes to get things out there in people's consciousness, new ways of looking at the world.

cloudsong
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Dan Freeman



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 651
Location: Wherever I'm sent.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't want to classify people as "white" or "non-white".

As a person classified as white, when someone asks me if I'm white, I'm wondering if I could start saying, "I don't believe in classifying people as white or non-white because that idea is what's behind white supremacy/racism."


Cloudsong, are you a white person?
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I've been classified as white all my life.

I am just trying to figure out what is the best way to answer that critical question in order to counter white supremacy and racism in the ways availble to me in regards to that question, as a person classified as white.

cloudsong
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Dan Freeman



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 651
Location: Wherever I'm sent.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

cloudsong wrote:
Yes, I've been classified as white all my life.

I am just trying to figure out what is the best way to answer that critical question in order to counter white supremacy and racism in the ways availble to me in regards to that question, as a person classified as white.

cloudsong


There is one of two "best" ways to answer that question.

1. YES.

2. NO.

When someone who appears to be classified as "white" attempts to answer/respond to this question in any other way besides "Yes" or "No", I become very suspicious.

But that's just me.

smallz
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you see the position you are putting me in, or maybe I just don't understand...

In your first post, you say when the answer is yes, you suspect that that person has just practised white supremacy.

So I truly don't know if I should say yes, if giving that answer means I am practicing white supremacy. But yes, the answer is yes.

I can answer to give you the correct information as to how I am classified, but at the same time I do not give it to practise racism white supremacy.

I agree with Fuller when he says that whatever moment a white person is not countering WS, he is part of it. I don't want to be part of it any more than possible, that's why I try to talk about it/post here/do actions to counter it. But when I'm not doing those things, then I'm passively a part of it which horrifies me.

cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

p.s. I am just trying to think of ways to answer that question that are not white supremacist.

"Yes, but I don't want to be part of the foresight and planning that causes white supremacy to continue"

"Yes, and let's change a world that even makes me have to say "yes".

"Yes, and I've had far more than my fair share in this world as a result of my being white since wealth production under a system of WS favors whites and disenfranchises non-whites."

"Yes, and I'm not proud of that."

etc.

Or does that even do any good. And white people are the ones I need to say that answer to, and they never ask me the question anyway. I have such pale eyes and skin, almost albino without contacts and a little darker foundation, so I think they just go by color, without thinking about function -- and that's the whole problem, white people don't think about function or how they get to function. cloudsong
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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well lets look at it this way cloudsong.


When you ask another person who appears to be a White person; "Are you a White person?"


Do they:

Hesitate?

evade?

stall?

"bob and weave..."?


Or do they just say: "yeah"?


Josh
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me call a few of my white friends and ask and I'll report back.

It's funny, as much as I've been on these forums and thought about the critical question, I can't remember ever asking a white person "are you a white person?"

My prediction is that they'll say, "Karen, you've gotten way too far into that white supremacy stuff."

Or, "Are you on crack?"

Or, "You really need to dye your hair, you're getting SO dumb blonde."

I'll report back...
cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Test case one: I just called a very close friend of mine.

This person didn't want me to use his name so I'll call him Norman.

Karen: Norman, are you a white person?

Norman: Yes.

Karen: How do you know?

Norman: Because I've been told all my life I'm white.

Karen: Do you believe what you've been told?

Norman: Yes.

Karen: What does that mean, that you're white?

Norman: It means somebody who is from European tradition, has light skin.

Karen: Does it refer to function at all?

Norman: No.

Karen: Why not?

Norman: Because it refers to being from the European tradition and having light skin. That's all it means.

Karen: Do you think you're able to function better because you're white?

Norman: No.

Karen: At all?

Norman: No.

Karen: Would you just as soon be black then?

Norman: No.

Karen: Why not, if you would function the same?

Norman: Because in this country white people tend to be favored or at least have less obstacles.

Karen: But isn't that function?

Norman: No. If I were black I'd function just as I function as white.

Well, I asked and he answered?! At least he didn't call ME a dumb blonde... (he's blonde)...

cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I knew my sister would come through at least better than most white people. I just called her. Here are her answers:

Karen: Are you a white person?

Sis: No, I'm an Anglo-American.

Karen: Why did you answer that way?

Sis: Because I think it's racist to call a person a certain color.

Karen: Really? I honestly didn't know that you think that. When did you come to that realization?

Sis: Because the name" black or "white' has racist connotations in America so it's better to identify the region of origin.

Karen: Did anyone help you to this realization? Any of your black friends?

Sis: Not that I remember.

Karen: When did you realize this; at what age did you stop thinking of yourself as a white person?

Sis: In the last couple years, in my forties (she's fifty-one)

Karen: You really came to this realization all on your own?

Sis: Yeah I realized it because African Americans are calling themselves African American instead of black to get away from labeling by color, so why should I call myself white?

Karen: Do you think white refers to function?

Sis: No, I think it refers to skin color.

Karen: Do you think whites do function better in this world?

Sis: No, function has to do with state of consciousness.

Karen: But do you think the world makes it easier for white people to function?

Sis: In America yes; not the world. Where there are mostly people of color it's harder to function as a white person in the broadest sense.

That's what she said. I'm typing as I talk to the person on the phone so I'm getting it almost verbatim. Are these helpful at all? cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to thank Smallz for bringing up this topic. You've led me to enlightening disturbing conversations with white people I thought I knew...

And Josh for pursuing it through your great question to me which gave me the idea to ask white people the critical question, thank you.

If you're ready for more of them I can post more 'mini-interviews' but I don't want to inundate. cloudsong
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Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cloudsong,

Thank you for the interesting information.

If its ok with VGOD, I suggest you start your own thread and post data such as this WITHOUT COMMENTARY OR COMMERCIAL. (in other words, no buckets)


Just you and your experiments.

Like they say in "Drag net"; "just the facts ma'am".

Now,


Take your same format and ask a White child these same questions.

Start at 10 years old and work your way down.


Im interested in finding out at what age a White child is able to comprehend the utility of claiming their skin is "white" when they know that observation is false.


Josh
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Josh, and V-God,

Okay, I'll try. I don't know many kids, but I'll find some somewhere! I just asked my daughter (17) - but teenagers are a pretty difficult age to get info out of. Her answers were pretty much, "Mom this is so stupid".

Under what topic heading should I start my own thread? I don't know if it's okay with V-God, as you said, so I'll wait till he gives the okay.

(V-God, is it a good idea if I start a topic heading in which to give results of asking white people the critical question?

The value might be that I may get answers asking as a white person that are different from answers given to non-white people, or maybe it'll be the same old same old.) Karen

cloudsong
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cloudsong



Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 327
Location: Arlington VA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

p.s. V-God, I don't mean to put you on the spot. I know I myself am and will always be a racist suspect here. If you're not comfortable with this idea for any reason, I can do this experiment for Josh privately, or perhaps post it on the Code forum instead.

I just want to offer help in whatever way is the best.

I don't take it personally if this thread would not be wanted here.

cloudsong
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