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ximena



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from Cezanne or basket of white flowers by Rivera.

The tree and flowers, painted and immortalized in the paintings, were literally new, unique, and original. They did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of the tree or flowers, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree or flowers, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation


Last edited by ximena on Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from one of Cezanne's paintings. (These works jumpt in my mind because I was just in the Provence a few months ago, amazed by the actual scenery and the works)

The tree, that Cezanne, painted and immortalized in his paintings, was literally new, unique, and original. It did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of that particular tree, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation, using his god-given talents; and relived by the receiver, in a new moment of creation, using his/her god-given gifts of sensitivity and appreciation.


Ximena,
1.) Are you a White person?
2.) What exactly do people bring into existance that don't exist already?

ALL people are "artists", "poets", and "musicians", some people are better arrangers and producers than other people.
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Edward Williams
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 3079
Location: I am from everywhere I've ever been and everywhere I've never been

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
I suspect your confusion would be lessened if it were realized that people do not create themselves because they are already here, which means someone or something had to have created them. And also, white supremacists (racists) are people.


So when this question is asked:
Quote:
Who creates White Supremacist/Racist?


Would this be the logic answer?:
I don't know, but you can ask the Racist/White Supremacist.

That answer would not be logical to me if your definition of "create" is "to bring into existence that which has never existed".

A white supremacist (racist) is already here...meaning they are already "created" by someone or something else...meaning they already exist. If they already exist they can't create themselves, according to your definition. They can only arrange their thought, speech and action.


(1.) Have White Supremacist/Racist always existed?

I don't know.

NECKST wrote:
(2.) Who arranged the system of Racism/White Supremacy?

I don't know...presumably a reacist (white supremacist).

NECKST wrote:
(3.) What produced the Racist/White Supremacist?

I don't know, presumably a white person.

NECKST wrote:
(4.) Who produced the Racist/White Supremacist?

I don't know.

Logically speaking, if white new-born babies do not practice white supremacy (racism) it would stand to reason that racism (white supremacy) is a learned behavior. It would also stand to reason that if the white supremacists (racists) are people, and people do not create things, the white supremacists (racists) do not create themselves...no matter how you shake it up and pour it.

If white people do not come into this world practicing white supremacy (racism), or even having any concept of what it means to be white, and they are in fact people, according to the definition of "create" you're using, white supremacists (racists) do not create themselves.

There is a contradiction in your discourse NECKST.

You say people do not create. You also say white supremacists (racists) create themselves. You also say white supremacists (racists) are people.
_________________
What is the reason YOU were born into a SYSTEM of INJUSTICE if not to replace it with a SYSTEM of JUSTICE?


Last edited by Edward Williams on Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ximena



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from one of Cezanne's paintings. (These works jumpt in my mind because I was just in the Provence a few months ago, amazed by the actual scenery and the works)

The tree, that Cezanne, painted and immortalized in his paintings, was literally new, unique, and original. It did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of that particular tree, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation, using his god-given talents; and relived by the receiver, in a new moment of creation, using his/her god-given gifts of sensitivity and appreciation.


Ximena,
1.) Are you a White person?
2.) What exactly do people bring into existance that don't exist already?

ALL people are "artists". poets, and musicians, some people are better arrangers and producers than other people.


1) No. Why?

2) I gave you an example above of the painting of the tree. That representation, did not exist before. An experience will be evoked in the observer using his gifts of sensitivity and appreciation, that did not exist before.

Well, okay, if you think that all people are artists, poets, etc. we may not agree then. Even though we may all have bits of talent in all those areas, and some are better than others, I do not think we all are the above. I know my limits.

All people have god-given gifts and talents, not the same ones. If you use these gifts and talents for expression of Self, Beauty, Spirituality... Life, and for improvement of life and our the human condition, then I think you are "creating".

In your case, you may be in the process of "creating" a new defintion, of "create", that may ultimately effect a new experience or thought process, in someone, causing them to have a new way of SEEINNG that did not exist before.
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
I suspect your confusion would be lessened if it were realized that people do not create themselves because they are already here, which means someone or something had to have created them. And also, white supremacists (racists) are people.


So when this question is asked:
Quote:
Who creates White Supremacist/Racist?


Would this be the logic answer?:
I don't know, but you can ask the Racist/White Supremacist.

That answer would not be logical to me if your definition of "create" is "to bring into existence that which has never existed".

A white supremacist (racist) is already here...meaning they are already "created" by someone or something else...meaning they already exist. If they already exist they can't create themselves, according to your definition. They can only arrange their thought, speech and action.


(1.) Have White Supremacist/Racist always existed?

I don't know.

NECKST wrote:
(2.) Who arranged the system of Racism/White Supremacy?

I don't know...presumably a reacist (white supremacist).

NECKST wrote:
(3.) What produced the Racist/White Supremacist?

I don't know, presumably a white person.

NECKST wrote:
(4.) Who produced the Racist/White Supremacist?

I don't know.

Logically speaking, if white new-born babies do not practice white supremacy (racism) it would stand to reason that racism (white supremacy) is a learned behavior. It would also stand to reason that if the white supremacists (racists) are people, and people do not create things, the white supremacists (racists) do not create themselves...no matter how you shake it up and pour it.

If white people do not come into this world practicing white supremacy (racism), or even having any concept of what it means to be white, and they are in fact people, according to the definition of "create" you're using, white supremacists (racists) do not create themselves.

There is a contradiction in your discourse NECKST.

You say people do not create. You also say white supremacists (racists) create themselves. You also say white supremacists (racists) are people.


The contridiction has been noted, Thank-you.

People do not create
People do produce and arrange.
White Supremacist/Racist are people.
White Supremacist/Racist do not create.


People have produced White people and arranged a situation that white people have been produced.

White people produce and arrange.
White people have produced White Supremacist/Racist and arranged a situation that White Supremacist/Racist have been be produced.

White Supreamacist/Racist People Produce and arrange.
White Supreamacist/Racist People have produced Niggers and arranged a situation that Niggers have been produced.

What's your thoughts, VG?
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from one of Cezanne's paintings. (These works jumpt in my mind because I was just in the Provence a few months ago, amazed by the actual scenery and the works)

The tree, that Cezanne, painted and immortalized in his paintings, was literally new, unique, and original. It did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of that particular tree, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation, using his god-given talents; and relived by the receiver, in a new moment of creation, using his/her god-given gifts of sensitivity and appreciation.


Ximena,
1.) Are you a White person?
2.) What exactly do people bring into existance that don't exist already?

ALL people are "artists". poets, and musicians, some people are better arrangers and producers than other people.


1) No. Why?

2) I gave you an example above of the painting of the tree. That representation, did not exist before. An experience will be evoked in the observer using his gifts of sensitivity and appreciation, that did not exist before.

Well, okay, if you think that all people are artists, poets, etc. we may not agree then. Even though we may all have bits of talent in all those areas, and some are better than others, I do not think we all are the above. I know my limits.

All people have god-given gifts and talents, not the same ones. If you use these gifts and talents for expression of Self, Beauty, Spirituality... Life, and for improvement of life and our the human condition, then I think you are "creating".

In your case, you may be in the process of "creating" a new defintion, of "create", that may ultimately effect a new experience or thought process, in someone, causing them to have a new way of SEEINNG that did not exist before.


I have arranged words in order to produce a definition of the word create.

Who creates atoms, ximena?
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ximena



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from one of Cezanne's paintings. (These works jumpt in my mind because I was just in the Provence a few months ago, amazed by the actual scenery and the works)

The tree, that Cezanne, painted and immortalized in his paintings, was literally new, unique, and original. It did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of that particular tree, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation, using his god-given talents; and relived by the receiver, in a new moment of creation, using his/her god-given gifts of sensitivity and appreciation.


Ximena,
1.) Are you a White person?
2.) What exactly do people bring into existance that don't exist already?

ALL people are "artists". poets, and musicians, some people are better arrangers and producers than other people.


1) No. Why?

2) I gave you an example above of the painting of the tree. That representation, did not exist before. An experience will be evoked in the observer using his gifts of sensitivity and appreciation, that did not exist before.

Well, okay, if you think that all people are artists, poets, etc. we may not agree then. Even though we may all have bits of talent in all those areas, and some are better than others, I do not think we all are the above. I know my limits.

All people have god-given gifts and talents, not the same ones. If you use these gifts and talents for expression of Self, Beauty, Spirituality... Life, and for improvement of life and our the human condition, then I think you are "creating".

In your case, you may be in the process of "creating" a new defintion, of "create", that may ultimately effect a new experience or thought process, in someone, causing them to have a new way of SEEINNG that did not exist before.


I have arranged words in order to produce a definition of the word create.

Who creates atoms, ximena?


1)

Yes, you are right you have arranged words. We have not concluded yet, your arrangement is a "creation". I said, you "may be in the process"... , the creation of that process would have to be something larger than a mere re-definition.

There is a lot more to the "creative process" than arrangement or re-arrangement.

2)
No one for sure knows that answer.

If you believe in God, then the answer is "God" created atoms.
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
I suspect your confusion would be lessened if it were realized that people do not create themselves because they are already here, which means someone or something had to have created them. And also, white supremacists (racists) are people.


So when this question is asked:
Quote:
Who creates White Supremacist/Racist?


Would this be the logic answer?:
I don't know, but you can ask the Racist/White Supremacist.

That answer would not be logical to me if your definition of "create" is "to bring into existence that which has never existed".

A white supremacist (racist) is already here...meaning they are already "created" by someone or something else...meaning they already exist. If they already exist they can't create themselves, according to your definition. They can only arrange their thought, speech and action.


**Question**
Who creates White Supremacist/Racist?

**Answer Revised**
White Supremacist/Racist are not created, they are produced.
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James Jones
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from one of Cezanne's paintings. (These works jumpt in my mind because I was just in the Provence a few months ago, amazed by the actual scenery and the works)

The tree, that Cezanne, painted and immortalized in his paintings, was literally new, unique, and original. It did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of that particular tree, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation, using his god-given talents; and relived by the receiver, in a new moment of creation, using his/her god-given gifts of sensitivity and appreciation.


Ximena,
1.) Are you a White person?
2.) What exactly do people bring into existance that don't exist already?

ALL people are "artists". poets, and musicians, some people are better arrangers and producers than other people.


1) No. Why?

2) I gave you an example above of the painting of the tree. That representation, did not exist before. An experience will be evoked in the observer using his gifts of sensitivity and appreciation, that did not exist before.

Well, okay, if you think that all people are artists, poets, etc. we may not agree then. Even though we may all have bits of talent in all those areas, and some are better than others, I do not think we all are the above. I know my limits.

All people have god-given gifts and talents, not the same ones. If you use these gifts and talents for expression of Self, Beauty, Spirituality... Life, and for improvement of life and our the human condition, then I think you are "creating".

In your case, you may be in the process of "creating" a new defintion, of "create", that may ultimately effect a new experience or thought process, in someone, causing them to have a new way of SEEINNG that did not exist before.


I have arranged words in order to produce a definition of the word create.

Who creates atoms, ximena?


1)

Yes, you are right you have arranged words. We have not concluded yet, your arrangement is a "creation". I said, you "may be in the process"... , the creation of that process would have to be something larger than a mere re-definition.

There is a lot more to the "creative process" than arrangement or re-arrangement.

2)
No one for sure knows that answer.

If you believe in God, then the answer is "God" created atoms.


The basis for all things in the Known Universe is atoms and God/The Creator has created the atom by your own acknowledgment. Which means, anything that people do with atoms (paint is made up of atoms) is nothing more than an arrangment.

People can only produce and arrange.
People can not create.
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ximena



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from one of Cezanne's paintings. (These works jumpt in my mind because I was just in the Provence a few months ago, amazed by the actual scenery and the works)

The tree, that Cezanne, painted and immortalized in his paintings, was literally new, unique, and original. It did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of that particular tree, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation, using his god-given talents; and relived by the receiver, in a new moment of creation, using his/her god-given gifts of sensitivity and appreciation.


Ximena,
1.) Are you a White person?
2.) What exactly do people bring into existance that don't exist already?

ALL people are "artists". poets, and musicians, some people are better arrangers and producers than other people.


1) No. Why?

2) I gave you an example above of the painting of the tree. That representation, did not exist before. An experience will be evoked in the observer using his gifts of sensitivity and appreciation, that did not exist before.

Well, okay, if you think that all people are artists, poets, etc. we may not agree then. Even though we may all have bits of talent in all those areas, and some are better than others, I do not think we all are the above. I know my limits.

All people have god-given gifts and talents, not the same ones. If you use these gifts and talents for expression of Self, Beauty, Spirituality... Life, and for improvement of life and our the human condition, then I think you are "creating".

In your case, you may be in the process of "creating" a new defintion, of "create", that may ultimately effect a new experience or thought process, in someone, causing them to have a new way of SEEINNG that did not exist before.


I have arranged words in order to produce a definition of the word create.

Who creates atoms, ximena?


1)

Yes, you are right you have arranged words. We have not concluded yet, your arrangement is a "creation". I said, you "may be in the process"... , the creation of that process would have to be something larger than a mere re-definition.

There is a lot more to the "creative process" than arrangement or re-arrangement.

2)
No one for sure knows that answer.

If you believe in God, then the answer is "God" created atoms.


The basis for all things in the Known Universe is atoms and God/The Creator has created the atom by your own acknowledgment. Which means, anything that people do with atoms (paint is made up of atoms)
is nothing more than an arrangment.

People can only produce and arrange.
People can not create.


Yes. The basis of all things in the known univese is atoms.

I acknowledged that no one for sure knows who created atoms. Also that if YOU believe in God, that your answer might be God created atoms.

I am hearing your opinion and also that you seem confident in your belief that that "people cannot create".

Ok. I respect that. As stated before, I just happen to disagree with that.

For me, "arrangement" and "production" is much too linear to connote correctly the process that occurs when people are involved in "creative acts".

I do see people with the ability to create, "minute creations", if you will, in comparison to "God's Creation", of atoms, but manifestations nonetheless of such.

I see it as an encounter, between the person and the thing, from which a new dimension evolves, both objective (the painting), subjective (the experience of the artist and others) and spiritual (the energy and life force that transcends, both person and object, is timeless, god-like, and what unites ALL beings to CREATION.

Just so I understand better your position, has any one human being in the known universe ever created ANYTHING?
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:21 am    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from one of Cezanne's paintings. (These works jumpt in my mind because I was just in the Provence a few months ago, amazed by the actual scenery and the works)

The tree, that Cezanne, painted and immortalized in his paintings, was literally new, unique, and original. It did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of that particular tree, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation, using his god-given talents; and relived by the receiver, in a new moment of creation, using his/her god-given gifts of sensitivity and appreciation.


Ximena,
1.) Are you a White person?
2.) What exactly do people bring into existance that don't exist already?

ALL people are "artists". poets, and musicians, some people are better arrangers and producers than other people.


1) No. Why?

2) I gave you an example above of the painting of the tree. That representation, did not exist before. An experience will be evoked in the observer using his gifts of sensitivity and appreciation, that did not exist before.

Well, okay, if you think that all people are artists, poets, etc. we may not agree then. Even though we may all have bits of talent in all those areas, and some are better than others, I do not think we all are the above. I know my limits.

All people have god-given gifts and talents, not the same ones. If you use these gifts and talents for expression of Self, Beauty, Spirituality... Life, and for improvement of life and our the human condition, then I think you are "creating".

In your case, you may be in the process of "creating" a new defintion, of "create", that may ultimately effect a new experience or thought process, in someone, causing them to have a new way of SEEINNG that did not exist before.


I have arranged words in order to produce a definition of the word create.

Who creates atoms, ximena?


1)

Yes, you are right you have arranged words. We have not concluded yet, your arrangement is a "creation". I said, you "may be in the process"... , the creation of that process would have to be something larger than a mere re-definition.

There is a lot more to the "creative process" than arrangement or re-arrangement.

2)
No one for sure knows that answer.

If you believe in God, then the answer is "God" created atoms.


The basis for all things in the Known Universe is atoms and God/The Creator has created the atom by your own acknowledgment. Which means, anything that people do with atoms (paint is made up of atoms)
is nothing more than an arrangment.

People can only produce and arrange.
People can not create.


Yes. The basis of all things in the known univese is atoms.

I acknowledged that no one for sure knows who created atoms. Also that if YOU believe in God, that your answer might be God created atoms.

I am hearing your opinion and also that you seem confident in your belief that that "people cannot create".

Ok. I respect that. As stated before, I just happen to disagree with that.

For me, "arrangement" and "production" is much too linear to connote correctly the process that occurs when people are involved in "creative acts".

I do see people with the ability to create, "minute creations", if you will, in comparison to "God's Creation", of atoms, but manifestations nonetheless of such.

I see it as an encounter, between the person and the thing, from which a new dimension evolves, both objective (the painting), subjective (the experience of the artist and others) and spiritual (the energy and life force that transcends, both person and object, is timeless, god-like, and what unites ALL beings to CREATION.

Just so I understand better your position, has any one human being in the known universe ever created ANYTHING?


No, people do not create on any level.
The Creator who is generally termed God, creates.

"Minute creation???"
Ximena, Do you create?(Y/N)
Ximena, Are you a person?(Y/N)
What are the step-by-step procedures for measuring a creation?
Do you have any examples of these "minute creation?"(Y/N)Please list them.

Thank you ~neckst
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ximena



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
ximena wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Issa wrote:
NECKST wrote:
smallz wrote:
NECKST wrote:
Create: Pronunciation Key

To bring into existance, that which has never existed.


And, who's to determine what has and hasn't existed?

How is this measured?

smallz


1.)
Only God/The Creator creates.
Only God/The Creator determines what has been created.
Only God/The Creator determines what has not been created.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is in existance.
Only God/The Creator is qualified to say what is not in existance.
ONLY God/The Creator gives existance to those things that don't exist.


2.)
I don't know, but you can asked God/The Creator.
Creation can ONLY be measured by God/The Creator.
People can only precieve what has already been created.


What do you call what artists, poets, dramatists, musicians do?


It is all an arrangment.
It is all a production.

They are all arrangers and producers.
All people are arrangers and producers.



For Example:

Artists arrange colored substance and produce an arrangment of colored substance, that they term art.


Neckst,

I disagree that "artists" simply arrange colores substances and produce arrangements of substances.

If that was the case, logically speaking, all people would be "artists". Or poets, or musicians. All you wold need it hand someone the "tools" and a "step by step" guideline and Voila! a work of art. That is not the case.

Although every human being has gifts and talents, not all use them nor have discovered them. And not all will produce or arrange a work of art, given the tools.

The painting that issues out of an "artist", is the creative encounter between a human being, and an objective reality of the subject being painted.

Let's take a tree from one of Cezanne's paintings. (These works jumpt in my mind because I was just in the Provence a few months ago, amazed by the actual scenery and the works)

The tree, that Cezanne, painted and immortalized in his paintings, was literally new, unique, and original. It did not exist before.

In the "creation" of the artist, or poet, or musician, something comes into being, something is born, that did not exist before.

Thereafter, everyone who looks at the painting of that particular tree, and lets it speak to him or her, will have a new, unique, and intimate experience with the painted tree, an experience born or created in the observer, only made possible through the artist's creation, using his god-given talents; and relived by the receiver, in a new moment of creation, using his/her god-given gifts of sensitivity and appreciation.


Ximena,
1.) Are you a White person?
2.) What exactly do people bring into existance that don't exist already?

ALL people are "artists". poets, and musicians, some people are better arrangers and producers than other people.


1) No. Why?

2) I gave you an example above of the painting of the tree. That representation, did not exist before. An experience will be evoked in the observer using his gifts of sensitivity and appreciation, that did not exist before.

Well, okay, if you think that all people are artists, poets, etc. we may not agree then. Even though we may all have bits of talent in all those areas, and some are better than others, I do not think we all are the above. I know my limits.

All people have god-given gifts and talents, not the same ones. If you use these gifts and talents for expression of Self, Beauty, Spirituality... Life, and for improvement of life and our the human condition, then I think you are "creating".

In your case, you may be in the process of "creating" a new defintion, of "create", that may ultimately effect a new experience or thought process, in someone, causing them to have a new way of SEEINNG that did not exist before.


I have arranged words in order to produce a definition of the word create.

Who creates atoms, ximena?


1)

Yes, you are right you have arranged words. We have not concluded yet, your arrangement is a "creation". I said, you "may be in the process"... , the creation of that process would have to be something larger than a mere re-definition.

There is a lot more to the "creative process" than arrangement or re-arrangement.

2)
No one for sure knows that answer.

If you believe in God, then the answer is "God" created atoms.


The basis for all things in the Known Universe is atoms and God/The Creator has created the atom by your own acknowledgment. Which means, anything that people do with atoms (paint is made up of atoms)
is nothing more than an arrangment.

People can only produce and arrange.
People can not create.


Yes. The basis of all things in the known univese is atoms.

I acknowledged that no one for sure knows who created atoms. Also that if YOU believe in God, that your answer might be God created atoms.

I am hearing your opinion and also that you seem confident in your belief that that "people cannot create".

Ok. I respect that. As stated before, I just happen to disagree with that.

For me, "arrangement" and "production" is much too linear to connote correctly the process that occurs when people are involved in "creative acts".

I do see people with the ability to create, "minute creations", if you will, in comparison to "God's Creation", of atoms, but manifestations nonetheless of such.

I see it as an encounter, between the person and the thing, from which a new dimension evolves, both objective (the painting), subjective (the experience of the artist and others) and spiritual (the energy and life force that transcends, both person and object, is timeless, god-like, and what unites ALL beings to CREATION.

Just so I understand better your position, has any one human being in the known universe ever created ANYTHING?


No, people do not create on any level.
The Creator who is generally termed God, creates.

"Minute creation???"
Ximena, Do you create?(Y/N)
Ximena, Are you a person?(Y/N)
What are the step-by-step procedures for measuring a creation?
Do you have any examples of these "minute creation?"(Y/N)Please list them.

Thank you ~neckst

Quote:
What about this needs further clarification?
Based on your assertion, I assume the answers should be: 1. No 2. yes 3. Don't know. 4. No

If you are really interested in my answers, let me know. Ahtough I believe I already answered them throughout our conversation, so don't want to beat a dead horse if we have one.

This conversation reminded me of when I used to be in grade school in catholic school. I kept giving the nuns the answers they did not want to hear. Finally, so I could go to recess, I would spout back what they expected to hear. In this case, I need to get to work and won't have time to visit during the week. Have a Nice Day.
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

Ximena, Do you create?(Y/N)
ximena wrote:
1. No


Ximena, Are you a person?(Y/N)
ximena wrote:
2. yes


What are the step-by-step procedures for measuring a creation?
ximena wrote:
3. Don't know.


Do you have any examples of these "minute creation?"(Y/N)Please list them.
ximena wrote:
(4.) No


**REVISED**I have no further comments or questions.**REVISED**
Thank you ~neckst


Last edited by James Jones on Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ximena



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Create Reply with quote

NECKST wrote:
Ximena, Do you create?(Y/N)
ximena wrote:
1. No


Ximena, Are you a person?(Y/N)
ximena wrote:
2. yes


What are the step-by-step procedures for measuring a creation?
ximena wrote:
3. Don't know.


Do you have any examples of these "minute creation?"(Y/N)Please list them.
ximena wrote:
(4.) No


I have no further comments or questions.
Thank you ~neckst


Based on the above breakdown of the answers I gave you that I though you wanted to hear, I see, just as I thought, they satisfied your query.

But, as indicated, those are not "my" answers. What I think, is that God is the Supreme Creator, and the Creator of Life and the Universe. He (whatever that is) has given us talents and gifts, with which to exercise creativity.

Thus in answer to question 2) Yes, I create. Question 4)What? Many things. Paintings, children's books, a children's cretivity center, where children are now learning to develop and use their creativity, to name a few. 3) Creativity is not "measured" through a step-by-step process.

Thank you. Have a Nice week.
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James Jones
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:


People don't create anything...they arrange what's already here. I've heard that people are now creating people from DNA. Where did the DNA come from? Everything on a computer is produced from electrons. Where did the electrons come from? Who or what created the electrons?

We use that word create in a box...the same box that was given to us to make us think we're doing something...some statistically measurable progress...while the people that are really doing something are the people that give us the box to use the word in.

Logically speaking, there are no people in this universe that are creating something out of nothing. We produce things by using other things...no person is producing things without using other things that are already here. There is no place in this universe that nothing exists. Everywhere you go, something exists. When you think of producing something, you think of things to use to produce it out of. If you think you are creating something you think of things to use to create it with but where did those things come from that you are "creating" it with?
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