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GMAN_XTREME



Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:28 am    Post subject: Reality Reply with quote

Reality: Pronunciation Key


That which is true.

Example: It is [ a reality ] that racism/white supremacy exists. To refuse
that fact and be victimized by racism/white supremacy is to accept
non-reality; that which is not true.
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copious



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would reality be closer to that which exists?
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GMAN_XTREME



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Posts: 88

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cope,

I understand your confusion about this. The word reality is used like a synonym to existence sometimes. Bacisally, we are talking about the choice of words to desribe how, what we call, reality functions.

The reason that I called reality, THAT WHICH IS TRUE instead of THAT WHICH EXISTS is because my focus is on revealing truth and identifying non-truth.

Example: The existing idea is that fossil fuels will remain in usage forever. But, we have found that the existing idea is not true, it is false.

See, when it comes to discussing what is and is not, you must use the word truth in the definition to keep it precise and clear. If I say that reality is THAT WHICH EXISTS, you open up a range of confusing discusions about reality, virtual reality, simulation, multiple reality, simulacra, and on and on. It becomes easy for someone to derail your communications if you use a definition that is confusing or unclear. Someone will jump up and say, how can I be sure what exists and what does not? What is the measuring stick?

The measuring stick for me is truth.

Truth and Existence are two different things. IT takes alot of thinking to see that, but they are two different things. Existance deals with being created. Truth deals with what is. It is hard to grasp, I admit.
This seems logical to me because we often say:

Is it true that Racism / White Supremacy exists?

Why not say:

Does racism / white supremacy exist?

Here is another:

Reality is that which exists so, my grandmother is reality. But, how can I be sure I exist. What is existance? Is reality an illusion? It felt real? Is she reality? Reality is illusion....Blah blah blah blah.

People can go on like this for months. Observe a philosophy class to see what I mean. They talk for months and reach NO conclusions. Nothing constructive is added to the core of common understanding. Why? Because their aint no standard! Truth is my standard.

Copious, can you see how confusing that can become? A discussion about racism will turn into a discussion about Rene Decartes and his theory of "I think therefore I am". That is slippery territory. And you will wind up on your ass if the language does not emphasize revealing truth to REPLACE THE SYSTEM OF WHITE SUPREMACY WITH A SYSTEM OF JUSTICE
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Reality Reply with quote

GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Reality

That which is true.

Example: It is [ a reality ] that racism/white supremacy exists. To refuse
that fact and be victimized by racism/white supremacy is to accept
non-reality; that which is not true.

What is the opposite of reality?
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copious



Joined: 29 May 2003
Posts: 248

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Example: The existing idea is that fossil fuels will remain in usage forever. But, we have found that the existing idea is not true, it is false.


With in these contexts I can clearly realize what you mean, I believe.


Thx,
cope
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GMAN_XTREME



Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Reality Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Reality

That which is true.

Example: It is [ a reality ] that racism/white supremacy exists. To refuse
that fact and be victimized by racism/white supremacy is to accept
non-reality; that which is not true.

What is the opposite of reality?


The opposite of reality is non-reality; that which is not true.

In reality, I am a victim of racism attempting to counter it
In non-reality(e.g videogames) I am a millionaire building cities

I hope that answers your question.


Last edited by GMAN_XTREME on Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GMAN_XTREME



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

copious wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Example: The existing idea is that fossil fuels will remain in usage forever. But, we have found that the existing idea is not true, it is false.


With in these contexts I can clearly realize what you mean, I believe.


Thx,
cope


I could still be incorrect because exist and true are sometimes used interchangeably. Its tricky, but for the purposes of countering racism, I narrowed the meaning to THAT WHICH IS TRUE. I hope to have it airtight as some would say....So, I cannot be derailed in communication with people. That's the worst and it has happened to me many times

Also, I'm sorry for the longwindedness of my response. I gotta work on that, I think.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Reality Reply with quote

GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Reality

That which is true.

Example: It is [ a reality ] that racism/white supremacy exists. To refuse
that fact and be victimized by racism/white supremacy is to accept
non-reality; that which is not true.

What is the opposite of reality?


The opposite of reality is non-reality; that which is not true.

In reality, I am a victim of racism attempting to counter it
In non-reality(e.g videogames) I am a millionaire building cities

I hope that answers your question.

"Non-reality"? When a person plays a videogame, is it true that the person playing the videogame is in reality playing non-reality?
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GMAN_XTREME



Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Reality Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Reality

That which is true.

Example: It is [ a reality ] that racism/white supremacy exists. To refuse
that fact and be victimized by racism/white supremacy is to accept
non-reality; that which is not true.

What is the opposite of reality?


The opposite of reality is non-reality; that which is not true.

In reality, I am a victim of racism attempting to counter it
In non-reality(e.g videogames) I am a millionaire building cities

I hope that answers your question.

"Non-reality"? When a person plays a videogame, is it true that the person playing the videogame is in reality playing non-reality?


I would say no, because the person playing the videogame may be in non reality also. I can play a videogame and tell myself that racism does not exist.
I think of this as being like the Matrix. The person's mind keeps them from seeing what is trully happening. Their perception is blocked. So they are existing in non-reality, because they have or someone else has constructed their thought process in such a way that they cannot see what is really happening around them.

If I knocked you out, placed you in the Holodeck from StarTrek and had some simulated beings wake you up in a simulated hospital, you may be unable to discern what is real and what is not. You'll be talking to the nurse while I watch you like a hamster in a cage. Soon you will accept non-reality and stay trapped in the place I put you. You'll never escape because you exist in my construct of non-reality, unaware of the fact that the nurse, hospital, and bed are programs. I could have you bound by your ankles but all you see is that nurse coming with your wheelchair.
This can easily be applied to people in day to day life who cannot see what is TRULLY in front of them.
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GMAN_XTREME



Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question, which definition is stronger?

Reality = That which is true
Reality = That which trully exists
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HelixHair



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMan, I think your distinction between reality and truth may be important. How about this?

Reality = That which has been observed

See, anything that has been observed is a "real" in some way. One can observe a fictional account as a "real" story. A hallucination is a "real" observation to the person experiencing it.

Perhaps the question that should be asked is this: What are the characteristics of those observations that reveal truth?

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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Reality Reply with quote

GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Reality

That which is true.

Example: It is [ a reality ] that racism/white supremacy exists. To refuse
that fact and be victimized by racism/white supremacy is to accept
non-reality; that which is not true.

What is the opposite of reality?


The opposite of reality is non-reality; that which is not true.

In reality, I am a victim of racism attempting to counter it
In non-reality(e.g videogames) I am a millionaire building cities

I hope that answers your question.

"Non-reality"? When a person plays a videogame, is it true that the person playing the videogame is in reality playing non-reality?


I would say no, because the person playing the videogame may be in non reality also. I can play a videogame and tell myself that racism does not exist.
I think of this as being like the Matrix. The person's mind keeps them from seeing what is trully happening. Their perception is blocked. So they are existing in non-reality, because they have or someone else has constructed their thought process in such a way that they cannot see what is really happening around them.

If I knocked you out, placed you in the Holodeck from StarTrek and had some simulated beings wake you up in a simulated hospital, you may be unable to discern what is real and what is not. You'll be talking to the nurse while I watch you like a hamster in a cage. Soon you will accept non-reality and stay trapped in the place I put you. You'll never escape because you exist in my construct of non-reality, unaware of the fact that the nurse, hospital, and bed are programs. I could have you bound by your ankles but all you see is that nurse coming with your wheelchair.
This can easily be applied to people in day to day life who cannot see what is TRULLY in front of them.

See how confusing that is? Is this discussion board real? How do you define real? Is the videogame real? If it is real can it be real but not reality at the same time?
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GMAN_XTREME



Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: Reality Reply with quote

Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Reality

That which is true.

Example: It is [ a reality ] that racism/white supremacy exists. To refuse
that fact and be victimized by racism/white supremacy is to accept
non-reality; that which is not true.

What is the opposite of reality?


The opposite of reality is non-reality; that which is not true.

In reality, I am a victim of racism attempting to counter it
In non-reality(e.g videogames) I am a millionaire building cities

I hope that answers your question.

"Non-reality"? When a person plays a videogame, is it true that the person playing the videogame is in reality playing non-reality?


I would say no, because the person playing the videogame may be in non reality also. I can play a videogame and tell myself that racism does not exist.
I think of this as being like the Matrix. The person's mind keeps them from seeing what is trully happening. Their perception is blocked. So they are existing in non-reality, because they have or someone else has constructed their thought process in such a way that they cannot see what is really happening around them.

If I knocked you out, placed you in the Holodeck from StarTrek and had some simulated beings wake you up in a simulated hospital, you may be unable to discern what is real and what is not. You'll be talking to the nurse while I watch you like a hamster in a cage. Soon you will accept non-reality and stay trapped in the place I put you. You'll never escape because you exist in my construct of non-reality, unaware of the fact that the nurse, hospital, and bed are programs. I could have you bound by your ankles but all you see is that nurse coming with your wheelchair.
This can easily be applied to people in day to day life who cannot see what is TRULLY in front of them.

See how confusing that is? Is this discussion board real? How do you define real? Is the videogame real? If it is real can it be real but not reality at the same time?


OK VGOD, I think I know where I made an error. My example of a video game was no good. *obviously* Because a videogame is an external construct. Non-reality is more related to daydreaming, you creating a false situation in your own mind.

One example I could give is when A person gives a speech and imagines everyone is naked. That's not the reality, that's non-reality that the person's mind is making exist(come into being). That's it!!! The divide between Exist and Reality!!! I think. I could be incorrect but this seems most logical to me.

As I said in the Correct post, we must come up with a clear compensatory definition for reality or get defeated in communication like I was when discussing correctness. *shaking my head* It felt bad, cause I could not recover. It was like the other person had me on the ropes and just kept punching me with words. So, I feel we gotta define this term.

questions? comments?
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GMAN_XTREME



Joined: 16 Aug 2003
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote

HelixHair wrote:
GMan, I think your distinction between reality and truth may be important. How about this?

Reality = That which has been observed

See, anything that has been observed is a "real" in some way. One can observe a fictional account as a "real" story. A hallucination is a "real" observation to the person experiencing it.

Perhaps the question that should be asked is this: What are the characteristics of those observations that reveal truth?


Helixhair, that's a good definition, but it's wide open for the objective/subjective reality argument. We want to eliminate that. Because if you have six people in a room discussing subjective reality you got problems with understanding what reality is. Cause each of them will have a definition for reality.

The goal is to to eliminate the subjective/objective reality agrument. Because it can be exploited by the White Supremacists/Racists if they spot the weakness before you do.

HelixHair wrote:
Perhaps the question that should be asked is this: What are the characteristics of those observations that reveal truth?
That is an excellent suggestion that will help us to undertand what reality trully is.
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Edward Williams
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Reality Reply with quote

GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Virtual_GOD wrote:
GMAN_XTREME wrote:
Reality

That which is true.

Example: It is [ a reality ] that racism/white supremacy exists. To refuse
that fact and be victimized by racism/white supremacy is to accept
non-reality; that which is not true.

What is the opposite of reality?


The opposite of reality is non-reality; that which is not true.

In reality, I am a victim of racism attempting to counter it
In non-reality(e.g videogames) I am a millionaire building cities

I hope that answers your question.

"Non-reality"? When a person plays a videogame, is it true that the person playing the videogame is in reality playing non-reality?


I would say no, because the person playing the videogame may be in non reality also. I can play a videogame and tell myself that racism does not exist.
I think of this as being like the Matrix. The person's mind keeps them from seeing what is trully happening. Their perception is blocked. So they are existing in non-reality, because they have or someone else has constructed their thought process in such a way that they cannot see what is really happening around them.

If I knocked you out, placed you in the Holodeck from StarTrek and had some simulated beings wake you up in a simulated hospital, you may be unable to discern what is real and what is not. You'll be talking to the nurse while I watch you like a hamster in a cage. Soon you will accept non-reality and stay trapped in the place I put you. You'll never escape because you exist in my construct of non-reality, unaware of the fact that the nurse, hospital, and bed are programs. I could have you bound by your ankles but all you see is that nurse coming with your wheelchair.
This can easily be applied to people in day to day life who cannot see what is TRULLY in front of them.

See how confusing that is? Is this discussion board real? How do you define real? Is the videogame real? If it is real can it be real but not reality at the same time?


OK VGOD, I think I know where I made an error. My example of a video game was no good. *obviously* Because a videogame is an external construct. Non-reality is more related to daydreaming, you creating a false situation in your own mind.

One example I could give is when A person gives a speech and imagines everyone is naked. That's not the reality, that's non-reality that the person's mind is making exist(come into being). That's it!!! The divide between Exist and Reality!!! I think. I could be incorrect but this seems most logical to me.

As I said in the Correct post, we must come up with a clear compensatory definition for reality or get defeated in communication like I was when discussing correctness. *shaking my head* It felt bad, cause I could not recover. It was like the other person had me on the ropes and just kept punching me with words. So, I feel we gotta define this term.

questions? comments?

No GMAN_EXTREME...we are in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism). Some people may say that the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) does not exist and to them it is not real. What are the logical mechanics for convincing a non-white person that the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) exists?
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