HomeCounter-Racism Radio NetworkCounter-Racism Television NetworkArticlesProjectsCounter-Racism Work/Study ProjectShopping MallContact
Secure DonationsSecure Donations  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  ProfileProfile  Log inLog in

Ethnic
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Counter-Racism Work/Study Project Forum Index -> Counter-Racism Definitionary
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
peoples who are not considered white, but who are also not considered as belonging to one of the nonwhite skin-color groups: red and yellow, black and white.


huh?

In a system of racism White supremacy, every person is either a White person or a non white person. The Observer is trying to create confusion by "selling" the concept of "ethnic White people".

I no more buy that nigger product than I do the term "White Hispanic".

Either you are a White person or you are not a White person. When you allow people to "garnish" the term "White person" with words like:

ethnic

Jewish

liberal

poor

gay...

it will corrupt and constipate your calculations by introducing unnecessary data into your equations.




White people know this and this is why you rarely hear a White person classify themselves as "White" without adding some type of qualifier to reduce and/or obscure the relationship between White people and the system of White supremacy.

Benazee, you have VGQ so if it works for you, use it.

But Im warning you; its a bomb.




Quote:
White supremacy in the USA has a WASP core that renders "ethnics" as white nonwhites
.


once again, if terms like "USA", "WASP"... helps you when you "crunch the numbers"; go for it. But I have found it easier to remove as many variables as possible BEFORE you perform calculations.

(note: White people often deploy these "packages" in their statements/answers to VORs. They serve as "escape hatches" they can use to avoid revealing truth. A White person may claim: "Im a White person but Im not a WASP".

OR

"Im European, I find racism in the USA horrible...")



Quote:
You emphasis on the "pastness" of these "ethnic" categories demonstrates that those peoples who once were ethnic can over time become white.


How?

How does a non white person BECOME a White person?




Quote:
So that was the point of my sarcastic comment about "being promoted" or "graduated" from race to ethnicity.


Only White people ACT like a race. various niggers try to all the time, but for some reason only White people have made the practice of raceISM a reality.



Whatever title a White person uses: liberal, Jew, soccer mom, ETHNIC...

when its all said and done they still act, behave and FUNCTION as a White person in a system of White supremacy.




Quote:
The white nonwhite ethnic can over time become more and more white until the question of ethnicity becomes a challenge for "recovery".


Huh?


"white nonwhite ethnic"?

is that a White person?


Quote:
The white nonwhite ethnic can over time become more and more white until the question of ethnicity becomes a challenge for "recovery".



You lost me on this one. Ive read it over and over and still can't make sense of it. Can you rephrase your statement without using the term "white nonwhite ethnic"? Try replacing it with the term "nigger"


Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
benazee



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:35 am    Post subject: code talk Reply with quote

Josh, I see that you want a more unified approach to white racism, that strips away the cultural curly-cues, such as the curious mis-logic of white nonwhite ethnics who are historically quite assimilable into white supremacy, but who can also feel the heat and rejection of white supremacy, depending upon the form that reaction takes.

I am not so much talking about "a person" as "a people".

And maybe it's all too useless to trace the path, once the assimilation has already taken place. So I'm glad you warn me not to forget that white supremacy is the ultimate code here. Still, if "white" does not ultimately refer to "skin color" but to the order of things, there is a history about how the order of things gets instituted among the peoples who make the history. There is a story to tell, for instance, about how the Irish became white.

Are we either white or nonwhite in a system of white supremacy? Yes, the code is starkly binary in its general and pervasive truth. But always there are also interesting cases.

My last sentence only means that a sure sign of assimilation into whiteness is that IF one wants to particiapte in a cultural heritage other than "whiteness" one has to deliberately "recover" a lost cultural heritage or ethnicity. "Who were my people before we got to be so white?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
white nonwhite ethnics who are historically quite assimilable into white supremacy, but who can also feel the heat and rejection of white supremacy, depending upon the form that reaction takes.



You mean like "Anne Frank" or something?


Quote:
Still, if "white" does not ultimately refer to "skin color" but to the order of things, there is a history about how the order of things gets instituted among the peoples who make the history. There is a story to tell, for instance, about how the Irish became white.




There is a story to tell, for instance, about how the Irish became white.

OK, How did they do it?





Quote:
My last sentence only means that a sure sign of assimilation into whiteness is that IF one wants to particiapte in a cultural heritage other than "whiteness" one has to deliberately "recover" a lost cultural heritage or ethnicity. "Who were my people before we got to be so white?"



Benazee,

1.Please define "Whiteness" for me.

2. Please tell me what the opposite of "Whiteness is.

and

3. Please explain the difference between "Whiteness" and White supremacy.




Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(pardon me while I tamper with the language)




Quote:
My last sentence only means that a sure sign of assimilation into blackness is that IF one wants to particiapte in a cultural heritage other than blackness one has to deliberately "recover" a lost cultural heritage or ethnicity. "Who were my people before we got to be so black?"



OR

Quote:
My last sentence only means that a sure sign of assimilation into White supremacy is that IF one wants to particiapte in a cultural heritage other than White supremacy one has to deliberately "recover" a lost cultural heritage or ethnicity. "Who were my people before we got to be so racist?"


(Anne Frank turns over in grave)

(M$M grabs crotch; shouts beeyatch! rolls blunt...)

(Bill Klintoon picks up sax, puts on dark glasses...)

(Jorge Bush speaks spanglish)

(Lucille Ball, Don Rickles, Shirley Temple, Al Jolson, Ted Danzig... apply "Black face", tap dance, coon...)


Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
benazee



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:10 am    Post subject: backatcha Reply with quote

Gosh Josh, let me work on your posts here. Yes, I was thinking of anti-Semitism as a good example of white nonwhite dynamics. Also I think about the Chicago neighborhoods where King marched, and "ethnic" peoples ganged up as white against black. Perhaps that is why you ask more questions about the Irish. To emphasize that part of the whitening process involves participation in white supremacy, anti-black, anti-brown.

For me, whiteness is more of a cultural milieu made in a structure of white supremacy, but not exactly congruent. That's why I speak about white counter-racism.

The opposite of whiteness? A fine Socratic question. Does everything have an opposite? There is a way to construct whiteness as an opposite, especially in the code of supremacy. But I'm not sure that I want to buy into that Platonic schema.

This is the work I am trying--to see whiteness as a named culture, just in the way that "ethnicity" names cultures of color. White supremacy has its indelible impacts everywhere, but is it possible to see even in whiteness resources for subversion of white supremacy? When you replace whiteness with white supremacy, I think you are replacing a term that leaves room for subversion with a term that does not.

Perhaps you mean to suggest that whiteness is only supremacist? But this is where I'd like to explore things a little. Does whiteness have any pluralistic possibilities whatsoever?

I see you are tampering with language, replacing words. Such tampering makes me uncomfortable because I see it done all the time in racist discourse. Let's just replace the word white with the word black, etc. Usually the consequences of this play do not yield counter-racist results.

So I'll ask you to please explain what you are trying to show with your language tampering. The quotes, word changes, and parenthetical comments are suggestive, indeed. A fine performace art. We can leave it there, if you like. But if it's meant to be an argument, then let's see what the argument is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Josh



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 796
Location: Closer

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Gosh Josh, let me work on your posts here. Yes, I was thinking of anti-Semitism as a good example of white nonwhite dynamics. Also I think about the Chicago neighborhoods where King marched, and "ethnic" peoples ganged up as white against black. Perhaps that is why you ask more questions about the Irish. To emphasize that part of the whitening process involves participation in white supremacy, anti-black, anti-brown.

For me, whiteness is more of a cultural milieu made in a structure of white supremacy, but not exactly congruent. That's why I speak about white counter-racism.

The opposite of whiteness? A fine Socratic question. Does everything have an opposite? There is a way to construct whiteness as an opposite, especially in the code of supremacy. But I'm not sure that I want to buy into that Platonic schema.

This is the work I am trying--to see whiteness as a named culture, just in the way that "ethnicity" names cultures of color. White supremacy has its indelible impacts everywhere, but is it possible to see even in whiteness resources for subversion of white supremacy? When you replace whiteness with white supremacy, I think you are replacing a term that leaves room for subversion with a term that does not.

Perhaps you mean to suggest that whiteness is only supremacist? But this is where I'd like to explore things a little. Does whiteness have any pluralistic possibilities whatsoever?

I see you are tampering with language, replacing words. Such tampering makes me uncomfortable because I see it done all the time in racist discourse. Let's just replace the word white with the word black, etc. Usually the consequences of this play do not yield counter-racist results.

So I'll ask you to please explain what you are trying to show with your language tampering. The quotes, word changes, and parenthetical comments are suggestive, indeed. A fine performace art. We can leave it there, if you like. But if it's meant to be an argument, then let's see what the argument is.
--Benazee


Check it out folks:

I asked Benazee 3 questions:


Benazee,

1.Please define "Whiteness" for me.

2. Please tell me what the opposite of "Whiteness is.

and

3. Please explain the difference between "Whiteness" and White supremacy.


Did she answer them?

Lets look at her "answer" to question #1

Whiteness: For me, whiteness is more of a cultural milieu made in a structure of white supremacy, but not exactly congruent.


"more of...but not exactly"


Notice how vague and obtuse her definition is (she must be a White person)

Lets look at her response to question #2:


2. Please tell me what the opposite of "Whiteness is.

Benazee answers:


The opposite of whiteness? A fine Socratic question. Does everything have an opposite? There is a way to construct whiteness as an opposite, especially in the code of supremacy. But I'm not sure that I want to buy into that Platonic schema.


Did she answer the question? or did she attempt to decieve me into thinking she answered the question? Don't be intimidated by White people slinging words like "platonic", "socratic", "schema"... or assigning a value to your question (
Quote:
A fine Socratic question.
). Those are tactics White people use to distract you while they evade answering the question.


Now lets look at question # 3:


3. Please explain the difference between "Whiteness" and White supremacy.


Benazee answers:

Hmmm? (Josh searches Benazee's statement)

Looks like she didn't even make an attempt at this one.

So in summary; I didn't get a single answer to any of the 3 questions I asked Benazee.

But,

But,

I got a whole lot of words from her.


This is the behavior you should expect from a White person in a system of racism White supremacy.


Ergo VGODS hypothesis regarding "counter racist White person":

Quote:
The premise is when it comes to replacing white supremacy (racism) with justice white people will not and cannot. This is not the function of a white person in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism).

THE LOGIC is that at any time, of his or her own choosing, a white person can decide to replace the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism) with a SYSTEM of justice without coming in contact with any non-white people.




Benazee had a chance to reveal truth BUT : when it comes to replacing white supremacy (racism) with justice white people will not and cannot. This is not the function of a white person in a SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism).


Exactly what I experience here.


I conclude, based on the evidence that Benazee is just functioning as a White person in a system of racism White supremacy.

Josh

(Josh motioning to gathering crowd) "move along folks...nothing to see here...go about your business...move along now...its all over...move along..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
benazee



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:02 pm    Post subject: josh Reply with quote

yes Josh, I'm a white person.

Define whiteness:
(1) whiteness is the concept that would result from a careful study of white people.

What is the opposite of whiteness:
(2) the opposite of whiteness would be a concept that does not result from a careful study of white people.

What is the difference between whiteness and white supremacy:
(3) the difference between whiteness and white supremacy would be the efforts made by white people to replace white supremacy/racism with justice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Counter-Racism Work/Study Project Forum Index -> Counter-Racism Definitionary All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
Web CalendarShopping MallDonations